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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#191

Post by lrem »

kuschku wrote: post #187
chinathrow wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent was posting about buying a house with land. Your example is for a (small) condo - way cheaper than what he was talking about. Edit: Parent was posting about buying a house in Switzerland - and that is really expensive in the surroundings of Zurich. Buying a condo is cheaper in any case - I just made a statement that you can't compare oranges to apples.

Buying a house with land in a city is a very american thing – which is why the focus on a small condo is a lot more realistic. Imagine a city with everyone living in a small house with land, it’d be impossible to live in, as the distances would be far too large.

Have you seen Dublin? ;)

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#192

Post by jack9 »

akerro wrote: post #63
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

> you're ignoring a fact...it's close to impossible to buy a part of land

What does that have to do with s3nny's post? I can't afford to buy a house in the area I work.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#193

Post by Houshalter »

chvid wrote: post #139

I think this is a nice demonstration of how well direct democracy can work. The argument against direct democracy (referendums on any subject any sizeable group wants to put on vote) is that people will be economically irresponsible and vote themselves popular, expensive goodies with no regards of financing or cost. This shows otherwise.

The argument against direct democracy is that the population isn't very informed. Not necessarily that they are selfish.

Even in the US, voters often tend to vote against their own self interest. E.g. people that stand to benefit from social programs often vote for conservatives against social programs.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#194

Post by yummyfajitas »

harryh wrote: post #173
patrickg_zill wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your snide comments imply that those who disagree with you are racist. Not exactly your highest quality contribution to HN.

Those that disagree with him are racist. They're explicitly valuing the lives of some people over others simply because of where they were born.

Technically that's not racism (in the original sense of bias due to race), since the people being discriminated against due to an accident of their birth might be white.

Of course, if we adopt the modern left's definition of racism (which includes actions which have statistically disparate impacts) then this pretty clearly is racism.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#195

Post by raverbashing »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #174
raverbashing wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are people "already in the country" more deserving than those outside? In average, they aren't. But life isn't fair. You might as well ask why those that came are deserving of help and not others, and your ability to help before it gets detrimental to the collective. > I propose helping the millions by not using violence to prevent them from performing labor for willing employers (an action which makes both the…

If you support unfair collective punishment and protectionism, why limit it to nationality-based groups? Why not restrict work opportunities for Black Americans also? And to protect "us" from the high rate of crime committed by Blacks, why not force them to live on the other side of town where they are less likely to harm "us"? (I put "us" in quotes, since I don't consider "us" to refer to any morally meaningful grou…

Good. I suggest you go to your local animal shelter and adopt a cat. But then you'll be favouring one over the other.

Even better, adopt all the cats they have there, lest you support unfair collective punishment.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#196

Post by rayiner »

jack9 wrote: post #192
akerro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

> you're ignoring a fact...it's close to impossible to buy a part of land What does that have to do with s3nny's post? I can't afford to buy a house in the area I work.

Not being able to buy a house near work is pretty common for younger people these days across the world.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#197

Post by [deleted] »

chinathrow wrote: post #136
s3nnyy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Zurich city it is not impossible to buy property, it is just very hard. Everything surrounding Zurich is affordable also for software engineers. I was looking into buying a three room apartment in Effretikon (20 min from Zurich by train) for 370k. I work here for 2 years and could afford the downpayment (20% of the buying price).

Parent was posting about buying a house with land. Your example is for a (small) condo - way cheaper than what he was talking about. Edit: Parent was posting about buying a house in Switzerland - and that is really expensive in the surroundings of Zurich. Buying a condo is cheaper in any case - I just made a statement that you can't compare oranges to apples.

[deleted]

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#198

Post by etatoby »

kuschku wrote: post #187
chinathrow wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent was posting about buying a house with land. Your example is for a (small) condo - way cheaper than what he was talking about. Edit: Parent was posting about buying a house in Switzerland - and that is really expensive in the surroundings of Zurich. Buying a condo is cheaper in any case - I just made a statement that you can't compare oranges to apples.

Buying a house with land in a city is a very american thing – which is why the focus on a small condo is a lot more realistic. Imagine a city with everyone living in a small house with land, it’d be impossible to live in, as the distances would be far too large.

I think even in the US nobody really buys a house (with land) in the city, but in the suburbs. Big difference and much more similar to the 1 hour drive discussed above.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#199

Post by jbmorgado »

akerro wrote: post #63
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

Why do would I want to buy part of the land, specially in a foreign country?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#200

Post by swombat »

Hermel wrote: post #155
980198201 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about corruption and cronyism. Perhaps a Swiss person could comment here, but from reading some Friedrich Duerrenmatt novels the picture isn't that rosy either over there.

As a Swiss, I feel like there is much less corruption than in other countries, even though we have less strict laws against corruption. The reason for that is simple: Switzerland has a very decentralized and democratic system, ensuring that power is widely dispersed. And there is no point in bribing or otherwise influencing a politician without power. It's the power that corrupts. If you take it away, there is also l…

As a Swiss I agree with the above. I think it also helps that there is no concentration of the executive power in any single person. The Federal Council ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Federal_Council ) is made of 7 people from different parties who have to agree and work together. I think this is much better than the system in place in much of the world where executive power is concentrated in a single person who is effectively an elected king with a few restrictions.
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