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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#181

Post by Hydraulix989 »

akerro wrote: post #63
s3nnyy wrote: post #37

Switzerland is the only country in the world that implements direct democracy. You can really feel the difference to the rest of Europe. Swiss more often than not stand behind decisions made by their government. When talking about their politicians, the Swiss say "WE decided that ..." whereas e.g., Germans say: "THEY decided that ..." If you look for a coding job in Europe, Zurich is a great place to live and is the…

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

Sounds just like SV!

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#182

Post by rs999gti »

chvid wrote: post #139

I think this is a nice demonstration of how well direct democracy can work. The argument against direct democracy (referendums on any subject any sizeable group wants to put on vote) is that people will be economically irresponsible and vote themselves popular, expensive goodies with no regards of financing or cost. This shows otherwise.

Wait - direct democracy is good when it comes to social issues but bad when it comes to economic ones?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#183

Post by enraged_camel »

riprowan wrote: post #107
enraged_camel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

I've heard it said that real estate is a risky investment. On the other hand, it's really hard to raise a family of four in a mutual fund.

I don't understand what you mean. Raise a family of four on a mutual fund?

Why do you feel that you need a mortgage in order to raise a family of four? Why not rent?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#185

Post by vasilipupkin »

taneq wrote: post #168
akerro wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the opposite, I never understood how people can not own a house and waste money on renting for decades. Where market for houses in western countries is very limited due to stupid regulations and every year a few millions of people move to that country causing renting prices to increase by XX% each year. It decreases my financial stability. Losing a job for less than a month is a financial disaster, I still to…

It's only a waste if you don't put the difference to work in some way. Owning a house outright is great (I'm 1/3 of the way there) but for most, a 30-year mortgage is no more of a wise decision than a rental. You're just swapping landlord for bank.

Exactly. You are either renting the money or the house. You might as well put your equity into a diversified mutual fund. However, there are massive nonfinancial benefits of owning a home, don't forget

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#186

Post by opendomain »

enraged_camel wrote: post #97
akerro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

In the US, we get a tax savings for owning rather than renting. Also renting includes a required profit for the owner. When you rent, your monthly bill includes everything the owner has to pay (mortgage, taxes, utilities), plus their profit. When you buy, you pay mortgage, taxes, and utilities, but no extra for profit. Also, you get to deduce the local taxes you pay on your national taxes, so overall you pay less.

Also, when you own, you can do what you want without having to ask permission. on top of that - no noisy neighbors that are too close!

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#187

Post by kuschku »

chinathrow wrote: post #136
s3nnyy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Zurich city it is not impossible to buy property, it is just very hard. Everything surrounding Zurich is affordable also for software engineers. I was looking into buying a three room apartment in Effretikon (20 min from Zurich by train) for 370k. I work here for 2 years and could afford the downpayment (20% of the buying price).

Parent was posting about buying a house with land. Your example is for a (small) condo - way cheaper than what he was talking about. Edit: Parent was posting about buying a house in Switzerland - and that is really expensive in the surroundings of Zurich. Buying a condo is cheaper in any case - I just made a statement that you can't compare oranges to apples.

Buying a house with land in a city is a very american thing – which is why the focus on a small condo is a lot more realistic.

Imagine a city with everyone living in a small house with land, it’d be impossible to live in, as the distances would be far too large.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#188

Post by enraged_camel »

akerro wrote: post #165
ajkjk wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If losing a job for less than a month is a financial disaster, you're probably not in the market for a house anyway. It's perfectly possible to rent for decades and have years of runway in savings. Also, the burden of being rooted, and of having to maintain a house, could be such a significant detraction to quality of life that it totally makes up the difference. Also, at least in my case as a relatively young Americ…

>Also, the burden of being rooted, and of having to maintain a house, could be such a significant detraction to quality of life that it totally makes up the difference. Yea, so I'm renting a house where my agreement states that I am not allowed to fix or improve the flat myself. All changes must be agreed and made by agency. Current faults in the flat include: leaking water from toilet flush since seal is broken, rep…

>>Yea, so I'm renting a house where my agreement states that I am not allowed to fix or improve the flat myself.

That's the beauty of renting: if you don't like your current agreement, you can find another place with more preferable terms. Plenty of landlords allow tenants to change/improve the property.

Whereas when you buy a house, you are stuck with the same neighbors (and sometimes the same HOA) for a much longer period of time.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#189

Post by 0xfaded »

enraged_camel wrote: post #97
akerro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

Pilot's who pour everything into their planes have a staying: you can sleep in your plane but you can't fly your house!

I guess people have different aspirations in life.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#190

Post by geggam »

rs999gti wrote: post #175
akerro wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the opposite, I never understood how people can not own a house and waste money on renting for decades. Where market for houses in western countries is very limited due to stupid regulations and every year a few millions of people move to that country causing renting prices to increase by XX% each year. It decreases my financial stability. Losing a job for less than a month is a financial disaster, I still to…

> waste money on renting How is renting wasting money? Are you not living in the unit? You're gaining 100% benefit by paying rent and receiving a roof over your head. You must mean a waste by losing out on building equity? That's a crap shoot in itself. A hot housing market and equity can go into the toilet at anytime due to very irrational market conditions. Look at the housing markets of Las Vegas or Miami for exam…

If you look at a place to live as an investment vehicle you are simply looking at it wrong. A home which is paid for is a place you can live without fear of not being able to make the next rent payment.

A mortgage is a bit of a jail sentence. Saving money and purchasing a place to live is the right way to do it.

No one will tell you that because they dont make money from you putting your money in the market.

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