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Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#121

Post by AJ007 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #97
akerro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As already mentioned, you're ignoring a fact that even by working there for 10 years, it's close to impossible to buy a part of land and build a house anywhere near a city. Land and house prices are too high to stay there for live. It's only profitable to live there, make savings and buy 2-3 houses in Uk/Germany for it. Like two of my co-workers did.

I've never understood why people believe/feel that buying land and/or a house is the pinnacle of... something. Sure, it gives the person a feeling of control and stability. But rooting oneself in one labor market (vs. being mobile) decreases one's employment options and therefore their salary. It's also very risky, as it's the equivalent of putting one's eggs in one basket and leaves their financial wellbeing in the…

Perhaps it is the result of choosing to take a historical price chart and say, "look the value goes up" rather than any sort of analysis. It is amazing to me so many people take out huge loans (mortgage, car, college) without doing the math on the final price after compounding.

If the economy is growing faster than your interest rate and the population is increasing as well and its really hard to build new housing, then by all means buy your house and maybe even take out a loan to do so! If not, maybe still buy, but there is little urgency.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#122

Post by s3nnyy »

alexggordon wrote: post #104
stickac wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely ignoring the fact that the cost of living is much higher in Zurich than the rest of Europe. (For example, the rent is around 10 times higher than in Prague). But after-all, you are a recruiter, why would anyone expect you to provide unbiased information, right?

I'm the one that downvoted you. Rather than simply insulting s3nnyy, pull out some numbers to justify your statement. I suspect s3nnyy is not hiding information, but rather saying the quality of life is worth it. However, it looks like the numbers are pretty comparable. In Germany a software engineer will average 47,500[0] euros a year. judging by this answer[1] I'm guessing your take home is going to be about 28,000…

I don't know what's wrong with lohncomputer.ch, but I get 400 CHF more in net-salary than what they calculate.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#123

Post by elcapitan »

jamesrcole wrote: post #109
elcapitan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least both are short noises at predictable times. I'm very sensitive to noise, but neither church bells here nor the muezzin calling for prayer five times a day in my vacations in islamic countries have ever bothered me. On the other hand, I wish somebody would actually enforce anti-noise laws against my trash-techno neighbor at night ;)

* > I'm very sensitive to noise, but neither church bells here nor the muezzin calling for prayer five times a day in my vacations in islamic countries have ever bothered me.* Then I don't think you can characterise yourself as "very sensitive to noise". Perhaps very sensitive to certain kinds of noise, but not noise in general?

I think that's obviously implied. If there was a general sensitivity to every kind of noise anywhere, you wouldn't be able to live. If I said "I have a food allergy", you wouldn't assume I don't eat because I'm allergic to food in general, or would you?

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#125

Post by tomp »

elcapitan wrote: post #14
_nalply wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downside are populistic decisions like the Swiss minaret referendum. Now we have the sentence «The construction of minarets is prohibited.» in the constitution. ( https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/... ) I think such regulations should be decreed as a law and not as a constitution norm if at all. But if everybody has a say you get bikeshedding in the constitution.

I agree, but that's not really an argument against direct democracy, but rather in favor of a slightly differently constructed constitution - basically there should be a unchangeable core of norms, and no additions that defy the purpose of those norms should be possible. Religious freedom in that case.

Technically, it's not against religious freedom - after all, you can still practice, at home!

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#126

Post by m_mueller »

vhf wrote: post #72
k__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it was 2500 bucks. Maybe 1500 would get more people to vote for it, or something else chagned, etc.

It wasn't 2500 bucks. The text Switzerland voted on today said something like: > 1. The Confederation has to implement a basic income. > 2. This basic income has to be sufficient to live in dignity and participate to public life. > 3. The basic income amount and financing are regulated by law. Nothing regarding the exact amount. Swiss people were asked to vote on an idea, not on a specific amount.

Which is exactly what made me turn against it. I want to know what I vote for, leaving it open like that will in the best case lead to a completely watered down compromise and in the worst case a complete mess. The social security system needs to get simplified at the same time. An initiative committee for UBI needs to sit down and come up with a tenable solution, at least for the basic parameters (both spending and financing).

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#127

Post by Suncho »

areyoucrazy wrote: post #68

Basic Income + Open Borders = National Suicide This proposal probably wouldn't pass in USA as well, especially given the fact that it's easy to get a Green Card and citizenship.

I disagree. I feel that the first country to have basic income + open boarders will "win." People will move there. The human mind is very powerful. On average, countries with more humans are more powerful.

Re: Basic income plan clearly rejected by Swiss voters

#128

Post by sbardle »

jdlyga wrote: post #113

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think the time is right just yet for basic income. When AI is to the point that most skilled jobs can be automated and humans don't really need to work, then we can start giving people money.

YC is taking the long term view, which is great. But what concerns me is the way in which Basic Income is already getting heavily politicised. Politicians are already using it to attract voters (front page of UK Guardian today, Labour party are "considering" a basic income). We are still very much at the research stage.
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