171–180 of 191 posts
I've read Hacker News for a long time and never published a comment until today. Ranked by my earnings and by education I'm probably in the bottom 2% of users on this site...but I'm proud to see today that in spite of that fact I'm one of the very, very few who refuses to deify sports celebrities. By and large the majority of you who throw adoration at Muhammed Ali never lived through his era. You never interacted wi…
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Please don't create many obscure throwaway accounts on HN. This forum is a community. Anonymity is fine, but users should have some consistent identity that other users can relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community at all, and that would be an entirely different forum.
I don't agree with this sentiment. I've seen having a "consistent identity" get in the way of a discussion for a variety of reasons: - Ad hominem attacks - Disclosing hypocrisy (as a logical fallacy) - Celebrity posters distracting from the subject - Appeals to authority Consistent identity is a no-brainer within the context of a single post; beyond that, there are downsides.
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Ali also turned his back on Malcom X: http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/02/25/467247668/...
From the same article, "One of Ali's greatest regrets — and he said as much — is that he never patched things up with Malcolm, that he never told Malcolm how important he was to him."
It's been several years since I read Malcolm X's autobiography, but he did specifically talk about his relationship with Ali and what happened, which was the real basis of my comment. Malcolm's depiction of the events is much more negative from my recollection. I just provided the above link instead, since I wasn't able to find an excerpt from the book.
Not sure why my previous comment was voted down, given that it was both true and on topic. I can only assume someone would prefer to keep their hero on a pedestal rather than admit everyone has their flaws.
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From the same article, "One of Ali's greatest regrets — and he said as much — is that he never patched things up with Malcolm, that he never told Malcolm how important he was to him."
His regrets after Malcom X was dead were warranted, and doesn't excuse his betrayal. What matters is how you treat someone when they're alive, not what your sentiments are after their death. It's been several years since I read Malcolm X's autobiography, but he did specifically talk about his relationship with Ali and what happened, which was the real basis of my comment. Malcolm's depiction of the events is much mor…
Same reason mine was. Tedious and predictable Ali fanboys.
It's really nice that he finally got around to expressing some kind of weak regret decades after the event - as if the only reason he didn't apologise at the time was Malcolm got himself killed just before he could do so ("he was killed before I got the chance").
The reality is Ali spent a decade after Malcolm's death fully endorsing and promoting the very organisation that murdered him (after they'd found their replacement mouthpiece, from a sport they had zero respect for, and prior to Ali had zero time for).
I've read Hacker News for a long time and never published a comment until today. Ranked by my earnings and by education I'm probably in the bottom 2% of users on this site...but I'm proud to see today that in spite of that fact I'm one of the very, very few who refuses to deify sports celebrities. By and large the majority of you who throw adoration at Muhammed Ali never lived through his era. You never interacted wi…
I've read Hacker News for a long time and never published a comment until today. Ranked by my earnings and by education I'm probably in the bottom 2% of users on this site...but I'm proud to see today that in spite of that fact I'm one of the very, very few who refuses to deify sports celebrities. By and large the majority of you who throw adoration at Muhammed Ali never lived through his era. You never interacted wi…
One of the best qualities people can have is to see the good in something/someone. The bad is of no value, so forget it, but celebrate the good. People here are celebrating the things they admired about a public figure. Likewise you can look at an online community and take heart at how people had a shared recognition of great achievements and are able to celebrate it together. It does no good to dwell on the negative…
> One of the best qualities people can have is to see the good in something/someone. The bad is of no value, so forget it, but celebrate the good.
This depends on your objective. If your objective is to be liked by others - then by all means ignore the undesirable aspects of people and things and only acknowledge those which perpetuate warm and fuzzy feelings all around.
My problem with this behavior is that it makes its way into the democratic process, and tends to override objective critical analysis.
I think as a society we need to respect and honor openness and critical thought. Censoring our interactions in a manner that perpetuates some kind of self delusion - although a happy delusion - is counter productive to progress.
> Likewise you can look at an online community and take heart at how people had a shared recognition of great achievements and are able to celebrate it together. It does no good to dwell on the negative and suppose that people would actually deify someone or support everything they do without hesitation in order to affiliate themselves in some way.
That might hold some weight, in this case, if there wasn't an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of grieving for someone whose life as an entertainer made little impact on the daily lives of others.
Sure, there was admiration and fantasy spread amongst the throngs of enthusiasts who followed the life and times of Muhammed Ali. But had he never existed the world would be no different today.
So I think it is absolutely incumbent on me to outwardly, vehemently condemn the intellectual class (Hacker News) for being so shallow, so superficial, and so sycophantic. We must rise beyond this mentality as a people in order to gain equality and value those who contribute in a more fair sense.
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It's widely known: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu8sVWQ-wk
The full quote refers to all whites. I agree it is inappropriate by today's standards, but a black man saying whites are the devil in 1969? I mean...
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Ali's friend, Malcolm X, hardly an "Uncle Tom" - as Ali disgracefully called another friend he betrayed, Joe Frazier - had turned away from the anti-white racism of the NOI by the early 60s (and been killed by the NOI as a result), so what's so special about 1969 that excuses a supposedly intelligent man continuing to mindlessly parrot their inane racist beliefs?
He had been treated poorly by whites his entire life. I'm sure you can appreciate how that would affect a person. He was also very young and became more tempered as he grew older.
Simply assuming that he was treated badly and therefore justified in his blanket discrimination towards others is academically lazy and ethically unacceptable.
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One of the best qualities people can have is to see the good in something/someone. The bad is of no value, so forget it, but celebrate the good. People here are celebrating the things they admired about a public figure. Likewise you can look at an online community and take heart at how people had a shared recognition of great achievements and are able to celebrate it together. It does no good to dwell on the negative…
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. In defense of my mentality: > One of the best qualities people can have is to see the good in something/someone. The bad is of no value, so forget it, but celebrate the good. This depends on your objective. If your objective is to be liked by others - then by all means ignore the undesirable aspects of people and things and only acknowledge those which perpetuate warm and fuzzy feeli…
Now, if someone is behaving badly or acting in some subversive way or whatever, then by all means challenge them. But this is about someone who has passed away. None of their negative qualifies matter anymore. What's left is the achievements that people can reflect on, or be inspired by.
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His regrets after Malcom X was dead were warranted, and doesn't excuse his betrayal. What matters is how you treat someone when they're alive, not what your sentiments are after their death. It's been several years since I read Malcolm X's autobiography, but he did specifically talk about his relationship with Ali and what happened, which was the real basis of my comment. Malcolm's depiction of the events is much mor…
> Not sure why my previous comment was voted down Same reason mine was. Tedious and predictable Ali fanboys. It's really nice that he finally got around to expressing some kind of weak regret decades after the event - as if the only reason he didn't apologise at the time was Malcolm got himself killed just before he could do so ("he was killed before I got the chance"). The reality is Ali spent a decade after Malcolm…