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The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

bbc.com

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Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#31

Post by dreamfactory2 »

kelnos wrote: post #29
dave2000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I left the country fascinated by the experience of a > population living under authoritarian military rule, It's not as simple as that. They are a democracy, with regular elections. They're just punctuated with military coups. There'll be tanks in the street and the military will have to, after a few days, try and stop people from dancing on/near the tanks. There'll be as many people in favour of the coup as agains…

> They are a democracy, with regular elections. That's almost laughable. The country has been under martial law for two years, with its constitution revoked. If the article is to be believed, the military prohibits campaigning against pieces of "legislation" they want passed -- like the new constitution, which basically just confirms military rule as law. A country with harsh (and enforced) laws on the book prohibiti…

> the military prohibits campaigning against pieces of "legislation" they want passed -- like the new constitution

They prohibit campaigning either for or against

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#32

Post by dreamfactory2 »

kingkawn wrote: post #28

I was in Thailand in 2012, spent a day in Bangkok hanging out with my former office assistant who had returned there to take care of family. While walking through the park there was sudden music playing from the loud speakers. Everyone stopped and stood perfectly still. My friend had gone into a public bathroom and rushed back out to make sure I was standing as well. There was an announcement from the king that laste…

this tradition happens twice a day - http://tastythailand.com/standing-still-for-thailands-nation...

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#33

Post by ra1n85 »

Bromskloss wrote: post #18

Explanation of the title: > So what did Patnaree do to get charged? According to her lawyer, the only evidence the police have produced is an exchange on Facebook between her and a political activist, in which she responded to comments the police say are defamatory with the Thai word "ja", which translates as "I see", or "ok".

"Ja" is the informal rural equivalent of "Ka", which is used here as an acknowledgement. "Ja" may have been interpreted as improper in this context, as it is not formal.

Language is something different to Thais - the West does not really have an equivalent, which probably makes this confusing to some. For instance, royalty in Thailand have a whole unique language that they, and their servants, converse in (Ra-cha sap). The only thing I can think of that's even close is the use of Latin in Catholic churches.

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#34

Post by ra1n85 »

hackerboos wrote: post #15

Thailand's technically a constitutional monarchy but the royalty is much more than just a figurehead like those in Western Europe. The actively interfere in elections and are on record supporting the various coups that have happened over the decades. Cables leaked more recently had the King backing the army during the massacre in Thammasat University. People should really read "The King Never Smiles" to get an idea o…

Excellent book. Also banned in Thailand.

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#35

Post by mtmail »

wueiued wrote: post #24

German comedian faces prison for mocking Turkish leader [1] In Canada men went to jail for disagreeing with feminist. He was latter released on bail, but could not use computer and electronic devices for 4 years. Father of five is graphic designer...[2] [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/ger... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Elliott

That caused much interest in Germany. All parties agree the law (§ 103 StGB, to insult a foreign head of state) is outdated and needs to go. Removing it won't be fast-tracked, at the same time the case again the comedian Mr Böhmermann will surely be slow-tracked by the investigators. Chancellor Merkel, after pressure from Turkey, followed the law though she had the right to overturn it (§ 104a StGB). Anyway, once removed a judge in Germany can check what the law said when the case was opened vs the current state of the law and use the milder one (§ 2 StGB). I expect the comedian will be fine.

Other comedians and newspapers supported him, there was even a song "sue me as well", the Germans in general see the whole affair as a joke.

Last week the German parliament officially recognized the genocide against the Armenians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide) causing yet another heavy complaint from Turkey. I've read the head of Turkey is currently actively suing several hundred people.

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#36

Post by jandrese »

Dove wrote: post #25
JadeNB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but this seems disrespectful—to victims of tyrants in general, and to the victim of this possible prison sentence in particular—and I can't see what it adds to the discussion.

You can't be made a slave without your permission. You can be made a fugitive, a prisoner, or dead... but you can't be made a slave.

It seems pretty dickish to blame the slave because they could have chosen to be killed instead. That's the kind of justification tyrants tell to themselves in those rare instances where their concious tingles. "It's their fault for being oppressed, they are a bunch of weak sheep, if they were real men they would have chosen to be tortured to death instead."

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#37

Post by JBReefer »

ra1n85 wrote: post #33
Bromskloss wrote: post #18

Explanation of the title: > So what did Patnaree do to get charged? According to her lawyer, the only evidence the police have produced is an exchange on Facebook between her and a political activist, in which she responded to comments the police say are defamatory with the Thai word "ja", which translates as "I see", or "ok".

"Ja" is the informal rural equivalent of "Ka", which is used here as an acknowledgement. "Ja" may have been interpreted as improper in this context, as it is not formal. Language is something different to Thais - the West does not really have an equivalent, which probably makes this confusing to some. For instance, royalty in Thailand have a whole unique language that they, and their servants, converse in (Ra-cha sap…

Can you source that? It sounds really interesting, but Google turns up nothing

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#38

Post by Dylan16807 »

Dove wrote: post #25
JadeNB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but this seems disrespectful—to victims of tyrants in general, and to the victim of this possible prison sentence in particular—and I can't see what it adds to the discussion.

You can't be made a slave without your permission. You can be made a fugitive, a prisoner, or dead... but you can't be made a slave.

What about a child? Are they supposed to somehow know better?

I can't believe you would use the word "permission" for giving in to torture. Maybe in some situations it's as simple as submitting vs. being immediately killed or imprisoned, but that's certainly not the only such situation.

Re: The Thai cleaning lady facing prison for 'I see'

#40

Post by drdeca »

wueiued wrote: post #24

German comedian faces prison for mocking Turkish leader [1] In Canada men went to jail for disagreeing with feminist. He was latter released on bail, but could not use computer and electronic devices for 4 years. Father of five is graphic designer...[2] [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/04/ger... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Elliott

I believe that the way you phrased that second thing is potentially misleading.

Not being allowed to use twitter or "have a smartphone or use a computer with Internet access" (direct quote from wikipedia because I'm not sure whether the internet access part applies to the smartphone part.) was part of the bail. The 4 years were between the time which he was charged (Nov 2012) , and the time that all charges were dismissed (Jan 2016. So, really, closer to 3 years, but that difference doesn't matter all that much).

I believe that someone who did not read what you linked might assume that you meant that it was part of a sentencing for something he was charged with, as opposed to part of the bail.

Indeed, I initially misunderstood your comment in that way.

So, I would like to clarify this potential confusion for anyone else reading your comment, and also let you know that people may be lead to make inaccurate assumptions if you phrase things like that.

In addition, I think your phrase "for disagreeing with feminist" is probably suboptimal / unclear. It is true of course that the things that happened to him were a result of things he said to and about the person(s) in question, but that isn't how a typical person would understand "went to jail for disagreeing with an ".

I believe that a typical native English speaker would typically interpret "They were sent to jail for disagreeing with a ." to mean that the person was jailed for the opinion that they held or expressed, not for the way they allegedly expressed their disagreement with the in question.

Am I saying that what happened to the person was right? No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm only saying that I think that the way you said the things, while perhaps technically true in a sense, has a high risk of people misinterpreting it as saying something that is not true.

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