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Muhammad Ali has died
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Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#72By the way, I sometimes wonder how appropriate it is to say "rest in peace". To me, it always sounds like you assume someone may not rest in peace (i.e. end up in hell?).
You're over thinking it. It's like telling someone to have a safe flight. You're not assuming they're going to have an unsafe one. Or wishing someone good luck - you're not assuming they'll have bad luck. It's just a nice platitude.
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ali wasn't "allowed" anything. He lost his livelihood for roughly a third of his athletic prime for standing up for his beliefs. He faced constant racism and bigotry. He was viewed as a bad guy by most of the country for much of his early career. Many people even refused to call him Muhammad Ali including other African American boxers. He persevered and became popular through shear will, determination, charisma, and…
I think he's correct in the choice of the word "allowed" - yes, he had to fight for his beliefs, very hard fights, but he lived in a society that still valued individual struggle and determination, and that in the end rewarded it with success. Otherwise he couldn't have achieved what he has achieved. It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest wo…
>> "It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest would still be "allowed" to earn reputation that way."
I don't think it's debatable at all. Just look at Mayweather or Conor McGregor. Both spend most of their time telling everyone how great they are and people are fine with that, as long as, like Ali, they back it up with results.
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he's correct in the choice of the word "allowed" - yes, he had to fight for his beliefs, very hard fights, but he lived in a society that still valued individual struggle and determination, and that in the end rewarded it with success. Otherwise he couldn't have achieved what he has achieved. It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest wo…
>> "It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest would still be "allowed" to earn reputation that way." I don't think it's debatable at all. Just look at Mayweather or Conor McGregor. Both spend most of their time telling everyone how great they are and people are fine with that, as long as, like Ali, they back it up with results.
That wasn't exclusively about the sports part, in sports you can pretty much do anything. I meant "everything else".
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ali wasn't "allowed" anything. He lost his livelihood for roughly a third of his athletic prime for standing up for his beliefs. He faced constant racism and bigotry. He was viewed as a bad guy by most of the country for much of his early career. Many people even refused to call him Muhammad Ali including other African American boxers. He persevered and became popular through shear will, determination, charisma, and…
I think he's correct in the choice of the word "allowed" - yes, he had to fight for his beliefs, very hard fights, but he lived in a society that still valued individual struggle and determination, and that in the end rewarded it with success. Otherwise he couldn't have achieved what he has achieved. It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest wo…
"somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest would still be "allowed" to earn reputation that way"
Golden age fallacy?
Off the top of my head, here are few people who fit that description in various ways and who seem to be doing quite well, despite today's "softer world":
Donald Trump, Kanye West, Peter Thiel
Also, softer world? He faced constant death threats. Also: "Almost as quickly as Ali had arrived, his World Boxing Association heavyweight title was gone, revoked after he claimed conscientious objector status in refusing the draft. He also was stripped of his passport and all of his boxing licenses. He faced a five-year prison term after losing an initial court battle defending his objection to serving in a war that he called "despicable and unjust." Ali lost the chance at tens of millions of dollars in endorsements while appealing his case to the U.S. Supreme Court."
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he's correct in the choice of the word "allowed" - yes, he had to fight for his beliefs, very hard fights, but he lived in a society that still valued individual struggle and determination, and that in the end rewarded it with success. Otherwise he couldn't have achieved what he has achieved. It's at least debatable if in today's softer world somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest wo…
"somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest would still be "allowed" to earn reputation that way" Golden age fallacy? Off the top of my head, here are few people who fit that description in various ways and who seem to be doing quite well, despite today's "softer world": Donald Trump, Kanye West, Peter Thiel Also, softer world? He faced constant death threats. Also: "Almost as quickly as Ali had…
I would say the rise of Trump is exactly the exception to today's rule that made him such a black swan event.
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
"somebody who gets out and tells everybody that he's the greatest would still be "allowed" to earn reputation that way" Golden age fallacy? Off the top of my head, here are few people who fit that description in various ways and who seem to be doing quite well, despite today's "softer world": Donald Trump, Kanye West, Peter Thiel Also, softer world? He faced constant death threats. Also: "Almost as quickly as Ali had…
I would say the rise of Trump is exactly the exception to today's rule that made him such a black swan event.
Demagogues have been around forever.
Also, this idea of a "soft world" is contradictory. Your claim seems to be that back in the day, because things were less "soft", Ali was allowed to be more self expressive. Yet, it's precisely this "soft world" which promotes the kind of diversity which, for example, would make Ali's conversion to Islam far less of a controversial issue today.
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#78Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#79A true character filled with personality and changed my view of certain aspects of life. Rest in peace and with success.
Re: Muhammad Ali has died
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ali wasn't "allowed" anything. He lost his livelihood for roughly a third of his athletic prime for standing up for his beliefs. He faced constant racism and bigotry. He was viewed as a bad guy by most of the country for much of his early career. Many people even refused to call him Muhammad Ali including other African American boxers. He persevered and became popular through shear will, determination, charisma, and…
> Ali wasn't "allowed" anything. He lost his livelihood for roughly a third of his athletic prime for standing up for his beliefs. He faced constant racism and bigotry. Joe Frazier supported Ali financially when he was unable to box and supported the restoration of Ali's licence. "The greatest" [sic], who for reasons you have stated should have been more aware than most about racism and abuse, paid back this great fr…
Ali also turned his back on Malcom X:
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2016/02/25/467247668/...