British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ • Hacker News Board

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#21

Post by JupiterMoon » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 9:17 AM UTC

lucozade wrote: post #17

fredley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit who finds this sort of thing completely scary/abhorrent, I often wonder what it is about our culture that makes this so. I think a big part of it is the class-system, which has its roots in feudal structures from millennia past, and is still very much alive and well today. We all grow up to develop an innate sense of class (I look up to him, I look down on him etc.), and for the majority of people, they do…

This was news about a year ago. I presume it's in Computer Weekly because the current bill is trying to close some gaps in the Wilson doctrine that were exposed at the time.

I thought that Wilson doctrine turned out to be nothing? GCHQ said they never respected it and always spied on MPs?

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#22

Post by JupiterMoon » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 9:21 AM UTC

7952 wrote: post #18

fredley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit who finds this sort of thing completely scary/abhorrent, I often wonder what it is about our culture that makes this so. I think a big part of it is the class-system, which has its roots in feudal structures from millennia past, and is still very much alive and well today. We all grow up to develop an innate sense of class (I look up to him, I look down on him etc.), and for the majority of people, they do…

> Also, I'm assuming there's an injunction out about this - can't find it reported anywhere in the UK press. Does this actually reveal anything new? It was previously known that GCHQ were logging email messages, and MPs use email. The story does not suggest that MPs email are exposed to greater scrutiny. The headline in every paper should be "Government fails to use email encryption". If the email is not encrypted it…

Bear in mind that MP's correspondence with their constituents is being hoovered up as well. Yes @gov.uk to @gov.uk could be encrypted but constituent to MP email is in some ways more sensitive to GCHQ snooping. The solution remains political.

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#23

Post by Harry101 » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 9:29 AM UTC

It's surprising to most Yanks, but Britain is the most heavily surveilled western country. It's much worse there it is in the US. (So far.)

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#24

Post by _9MOTHER9HORSE » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 9:38 AM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #16

fredley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit who finds this sort of thing completely scary/abhorrent, I often wonder what it is about our culture that makes this so. I think a big part of it is the class-system, which has its roots in feudal structures from millennia past, and is still very much alive and well today. We all grow up to develop an innate sense of class (I look up to him, I look down on him etc.), and for the majority of people, they do…

The UK has never had to deal with a truly oppressive government, at least not within anything like living memory. There's also the problem that nobody outside of the software engineering community really understands what the tech can do, or what GCHQ is capable of. My mother's primary comment on the whole thing was, "well we're much too boring to spy on" and that's a sentiment you see a lot. It reflects a misundersta…

> There's also the problem that nobody outside of the software engineering community really understands what the tech can do (...)

I think that's the main problem.

The IPB is all about allowing GCHQ and other government agencies to collect all the data they want, but we shouldn't be worried because there will be "safeguards" against the data being accessed arbitrarily.

Those of us who are more technically minded realize that's a false distinction, but most don't.

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#25

Post by lucozade » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 9:52 AM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #21

lucozade wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was news about a year ago. I presume it's in Computer Weekly because the current bill is trying to close some gaps in the Wilson doctrine that were exposed at the time.

I thought that Wilson doctrine turned out to be nothing? GCHQ said they never respected it and always spied on MPs?

That's correct. But MPs thought that it should mean something so they've amended the bill accordingly. That's what's going through Parliament now.

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#26

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 10:04 AM UTC

sievebrain wrote: post #16

fredley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Brit who finds this sort of thing completely scary/abhorrent, I often wonder what it is about our culture that makes this so. I think a big part of it is the class-system, which has its roots in feudal structures from millennia past, and is still very much alive and well today. We all grow up to develop an innate sense of class (I look up to him, I look down on him etc.), and for the majority of people, they do…

The UK has never had to deal with a truly oppressive government, at least not within anything like living memory. There's also the problem that nobody outside of the software engineering community really understands what the tech can do, or what GCHQ is capable of. My mother's primary comment on the whole thing was, "well we're much too boring to spy on" and that's a sentiment you see a lot. It reflects a misundersta…

In fact all non-establishment groups - CND, anti-nuclear power protesters, anti-globalisation protesters, trade unions, animal rights activists, UK's own Occupy movement, anarchists, even worthy intellectual left-leaning blogs, and so on - were and are routinely infiltrated and manipulated.

There's nominal press freedom, in that it's possible to call politicians rude names.

But if your movement or leaders become powerful enough to have a hope of influencing policy and to challenge establishment cash flows and power relationships, expect some blow back.

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#27

Post by peteretep » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 10:05 AM UTC

This is a dreadful article, and the title is deeply misleading.

Literally the only information this article contains is that MPs use Office365 and MessageLabs.

That they've felt the need to clarify, right at the end of the article:

    > Computer Weekly also points out that we have not made
    > any suggestion in this story that GCHQ “routinely
    > reads” MPs’ emails.

I would say that is exactly the suggestion that the verb "accesses" makes.

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#28

Post by newjersey » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 10:10 AM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #20

sievebrain wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has never had to deal with a truly oppressive government, at least not within anything like living memory. There's also the problem that nobody outside of the software engineering community really understands what the tech can do, or what GCHQ is capable of. My mother's primary comment on the whole thing was, "well we're much too boring to spy on" and that's a sentiment you see a lot. It reflects a misundersta…

> "well we're much too boring to spy on" Have you asked her why her government feels that it is necessary to spy on her if she is so boring?

I think the narrative is that the government doesn't spy on her. They also would probably say that they take in the fire hose and only access the communications of the bad guys™

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#29

Post by samscully » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 10:12 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #26

sievebrain wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has never had to deal with a truly oppressive government, at least not within anything like living memory. There's also the problem that nobody outside of the software engineering community really understands what the tech can do, or what GCHQ is capable of. My mother's primary comment on the whole thing was, "well we're much too boring to spy on" and that's a sentiment you see a lot. It reflects a misundersta…

In fact all non-establishment groups - CND, anti-nuclear power protesters, anti-globalisation protesters, trade unions, animal rights activists, UK's own Occupy movement, anarchists, even worthy intellectual left-leaning blogs, and so on - were and are routinely infiltrated and manipulated. There's nominal press freedom, in that it's possible to call politicians rude names. But if your movement or leaders become powe…

Fortunately the non-establishment groups sometimes infiltrate and manipulate the establishment too [1].

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/17/jeremy-corby...

Re: British MPs’ private emails are routinely accessed by GCHQ

#30

Post by monk_e_boy » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 10:19 AM UTC

fredley wrote: post #3

joshrivers wrote: post #2

The British are so strange. This kind of abuse of power would never be contemplated by American authorities.

As a Brit who finds this sort of thing completely scary/abhorrent, I often wonder what it is about our culture that makes this so. I think a big part of it is the class-system, which has its roots in feudal structures from millennia past, and is still very much alive and well today. We all grow up to develop an innate sense of class (I look up to him, I look down on him etc.), and for the majority of people, they do…

> we have an Etonian PM and largely Etonian cabinet

This is about money and class. It takes a lot of family money and a sense of extreme security (which comes from class) to tell your son - "Hey, you should become a politician." And for the kid... who knows what kind of mindset it required? Arrogance, winners mentality, thick skin...

The kids I grew up with never had those ideas put into their heads. Hell, most of the kids I grew up with, the parents thought I was bonkers for wanting qualifications, one of the mums told me "In our family, we don't bother with exams and all that rubbish."