Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next? • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#171

Post by _ph_ » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 7:37 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #161

rakoo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society, even though there is some progress towards i…

Paris and SF maybe, but a nation-wide ban is a long long way off. Until electrics have power enough to move something akin to a fully loaded pickup truck 300+km, there will be a place for petro. Just look at the Fort MacMurry evacuation. Not many electrics could have made that drive. I doubt Tesla will ever sell many units in the Canadian north. Ask them how those batteries deal with -40c. It's a problem ignored by n…

And how many combustion engined cars crank at -40c without pre-heating? But indeed, there are a few places and uses where electrical cars are not the best solution. That does not mean, that in 90% of places and applications they are already a more environmental friendly alternative.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#172

Post by aoloe » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 7:42 AM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #159

Rumudiez wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easily carry over a week's worth of groceries to cook three meals per day for two people in one trip on my motorcycle. I ride to work every day of the year in Seattle . It's kind of like, you know, living in pretty much any other country in the world where cars are…

There are three people in my household. Between us, we drink 30-40 (depending on the week) 2L bottles of soda a week, as well as a couple of 12-packs of soda cans, maybe an 8-pack of gatorade/powerade, and 15-20 half liter bottles of water. Food is not the largest part of what we bring back from the store. There are a lot of opportunities lost when you can't carry more than, well, you can personally carry. The "white…

What you are describing is 100% the contrary of my daily life and of what I aspire to become in the future.

No wonder that I am more than happy with a good bicycle and a yearly ticket for all public transportation in my country. Of course, I don't own a car.

I drink tap water, no "white cheddar mac & cheese" but as many fresh vegetables / meet / cheese as possible (ok, and lot of pasta). If I want to go to Paris, Frankfurt, Milan, Vienna, Rome, London or Berlin there is a (more or less direct) train every two hours. Just buy a ticket over the internet, print it, and jump on the train (And while I wonder where Delaware is and why I would want to go there, I can take my laptop with me and keep on working during the whole ride to Paris).

I need a monitor arm? Just choose one in the internet shop and it's delivered tomorrow morning at my doorstep. Or I can pick it up later in the afternoon at the delivery place 10 minutes from here.

If I want to go and play table tennis with my friends, there are public parks where we can meet... Basketball? Checked. Football (you would probably call it soccer)? Even easier. Want to have a swim together? In the lake or in the river in summer or in a public pool if it's cold.

No 4K screen, no mini-fridges, no king size bed, no cold walls... but i agree a real guest bedroom would be nice!

Owning a car is for me just unpractical. And for the few times a year I would need one, I can find alternative solutions or book one through car sharing.

It gets to the point where I wonder if owning a car or not shapes your life in such different way or different choices in life makes you own a car (or not)...

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#173

Post by zumatic » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 7:44 AM UTC

rakoo wrote: post #77

URSpider94 wrote: post #16

The e-bike situation in China is very different from the US. These are people who are moving UP from human-powered bikes, or walking, to their first vehicle -- not buying them so that they can leave their car at home and feel the wind in their hair. Here's a photo of a very typical Chinese e-bike: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-El... As you can see, it has a second seat in the back for a pa…

Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society, even though there is some progress towards i…

Bans have been proposed in Holland from 2025 (http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/03/only-electric-...) and Norway (http://electrek.co/2016/06/03/norway-gasoline-powered-car-ba...), but it's very early days -- these are only kite-flying exercises, not serious attempts at legislation.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#174

Post by _ph_ » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #11

eBikes are sincerely a great alternative to cars for me. I've been using an electric bike (Stromer ST1) for about 3 years now in LA and Boston. It makes perfect sense for these cities. The total cost of ownership is way below a car, due to the low cost of Uber, other people with cars, insurance and gas. In high traffic and hard parking cities like LA and Boston, I get to my destination faster. And though a bicycle is…

The question is also, how dangerous would biking be, without the car related accidents? If there were proper biking zones, not bike paths, lanes, but streets reserved for biking and pedestrian purposes, how dangerous would biking still be? And that does not take into account the health differences because of the beneficial effects of biking.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#175

Post by ck2 » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:01 AM UTC

I loved my electric bike, especially when I went from heavy, slow SLA batteries to an expensive LiFePo pack.

Then I got a car and got lazy and tired of the dangers of trying to travel across town next to people texting on their smartphones in two ton SUVs

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#176

Post by nl » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:07 AM UTC

jean_claude wrote: post #103

doctorpangloss wrote: post #11

eBikes are sincerely a great alternative to cars for me. I've been using an electric bike (Stromer ST1) for about 3 years now in LA and Boston. It makes perfect sense for these cities. The total cost of ownership is way below a car, due to the low cost of Uber, other people with cars, insurance and gas. In high traffic and hard parking cities like LA and Boston, I get to my destination faster. And though a bicycle is…

What's your source on the claim that bicycling is 7x more dangerous than driving a car? Most sources put it around 2.5x more dangerous than driving, and I'd wager most of those deaths come from inexperienced riders who don't know the traffic laws as applied to bicyclists. Fatalities Per Mile Motor Vehicle Travel.................... Bicycle Travel 42,000 killed........................... 813 killed 2.56 trillion miles…

Most sources put it around 2.5x more dangerous than driving, and I'd wager most of those deaths come from inexperienced riders who don't know the traffic laws as applied to bicyclists.

Unsure about deaths, but it turns out that more experienced cyclists are actually more likely to be injured, even taking into account that experienced cyclists generally ride more.

I can't find the paper now, but [1] shows a similar finding:

accidents were associated with.... cycling experience (curvilinear association)

[1] https://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1356866

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#177

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:08 AM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #54

tobltobs wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In europe they are still allowed everywhere if they are constructed as a pedelec with a top speed restriction.

25kmh with pedaling (you can go faster, but the engine will stop assisting at that point) and 6kmh on just engine. I keep seeing videos on /r/ebike and similar from USA where some yahoo has ordered engine and battery from Ebay or China that can push the thing way into motorcycle range.

> 6kmh on just engine.

FWIW that makes it not a bicycle according to EN15194. EN15194 recommends a bicycle classification for vehicles which

* only ever provide assistance

* below 25km/h (with progressive cutoff)

* with maximum continuous rated power of 250W

Anything beyond that is classified as a moped.

Though EN15194 is a recommandation, member states are free to follow it or not.

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#178

Post by nl » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:09 AM UTC

jean_claude wrote: post #157

nl wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a road cyclist, and one of the most fun things I've ever done was racing an e-bike up a long (~8km) climb. E-bikes here are limited to 250W, which made it pretty fair. He'd blast the flatter parts, and I'd try to hang on, and then on the steeper parts the extra weight of the ebike slowed him so I'd catch up again. Made me want to get one. I agree with your point about MTB versions

I used to regularly troll the semi-serious club rides on my recumbent, beating them on the flats, crushing them downhill, and pedaling like mad to keep up on the uphill battles. Just me, no motor onboard. But I've been thinking about buying one of those pedal assist e-bike rear wheel kits and putting it on my folder for commuting to work on recovery days rather than drive. They look dead simple, just need to make a b…

I hear that electric assist is quite popular in cyclocross these days too....

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#179

Post by Coding_Cat » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:19 AM UTC

zumatic wrote: post #173

rakoo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society, even though there is some progress towards i…

Bans have been proposed in Holland from 2025 ( http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/03/only-electric-... ) and Norway ( http://electrek.co/2016/06/03/norway-gasoline-powered-car-ba... ), but it's very early days -- these are only kite-flying exercises, not serious attempts at legislation.

We already have bans on certain cars in the Netherlands for example Utrecht does not allow diesel engines in the city center (Dutch source: https://www.utrecht.nl/milieu/luchtkwaliteit/milieuzone/).

Re: Electric Bikes Won Over China. Is the U.S. Next?

#180

Post by masklinn » Sat, Jun 04, 2016, 8:20 AM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #11

eBikes are sincerely a great alternative to cars for me. I've been using an electric bike (Stromer ST1) for about 3 years now in LA and Boston. It makes perfect sense for these cities. The total cost of ownership is way below a car, due to the low cost of Uber, other people with cars, insurance and gas. In high traffic and hard parking cities like LA and Boston, I get to my destination faster. And though a bicycle is…

> Conversely, I am pretty much subsidized by other people's vehicles

Why would you think that? The usual estimation for road wear is a fourth power law: scaling of road damage is axle load raised to the fourth power.

You on your bike may be 100kg on 2 axles, or an axle load of 0.05T. A model S has an axle load of 1T (2T over 2 axles), which means a Model S generates 160000 times the road wear a bike does. Incidentally, a loaded 18-wheeler (36T, 5 axles) generates ~1 billion times the road wear a bike does (and ~6700 time the tesla's)