Go on 2 interviews a year no matter what.
Always ask for more than you think you'll be able to get.
Ignore talk about culture if they think that makes up for salary - it doesn't.
Salary Negotiation
321–330 of 419 posts
Re: Salary Negotiation
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a recruiter and I will tell you this: you should abandon this advice, for certain. It's funny - probably the best advice anyone ever gives on negotiation is exactly the opposite of "don't name a number first." It's "anchor high." You should be anchoring to a number that is high but realistic, and negotiating from a position of strength. This is especially true for senior- and late-career individuals who have som…
I avoid giving a number early on in conversations. Rather than naming a number, I like to 'seed' the conversation with talk about market rate, 'premium' on top of that, and similar phrases to move them in the right direction. Establishing a position of strength can also mean other things like having the company and hiring manager invest as much time as they can in recruiting you; not hiring would be worse to them tha…
> Even if its never mentioned to the recruiter I just happen to negotiate better with the mindset that I have other options.
Playing the game like you've got nothing to lose is what breeds the best. This applies to a lot of subjects.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok I accept that answer at face value. Now, is the inverse also true? If I take a job with you- can I work 4 day work weeks and stick strictly to the 8 hour workday? Money is not your only motivator so I don't see why this would be a problem for your employees.
We have two people who are on 4-day weeks. It depends on your role(s)... Some are less compatible with part time work.
They get same, equal salary then to the 5-day 40 hour people? Otherwise it would look like you're just profiteering as your main motivator.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone is talking about this but no one is saying it: how much are your services worth in general? Would you share? Anyone is welcome to answer, not just Tactic. I'm just curious. I'll go first. I know developers that make 70 a year and some that make 120. It does depend where you live of course, but for me personally I need 90K minimum or I won't consider any gig, anywhere. If I can't get that, I go into subsisten…
Myself I'm worth about $120k given my experience, the market I'm in and what is standard for benefits in my area. (Minneapolis/St. Paul) And I have had no issue with that. The key to me on top of that is that I am satisfied with that salary. It is not one that would make me look elsewhere with any urgency. Yes, I could try to negotiate more, but I feel no need to and believe that if I got more the company would be pa…
You're probably more senior than me, I figured 120 is about what a senior level employee would be worth. Generally speaking of course. Big difference for example, between expert Python dev and expert C++ dev writing display drivers or graphics engines.
I don't know exactly what I'm "worth" so that's why I like to ask around. I base what I'm worth off more the going-rate than I do me being a touch below or touch above the average employee. I'm not confident enough to demand 120 yet, but 120-180 is what I'd ask once I'm dominating interviews and able to pretty much make everyone else look like a fool.
I've found the same things on all your points. If anyone else wants to add in more salary datapoints please do so. Don't be ashamed of lower salaries, I have friends who work for 70K a year as C# devs and know full well they can make more. They choose to stay because they're comfortable. That's worth a lot too.
I make 90K now, but I work from home and am very comfortable. I know I can get 100K if I switch jobs and start going into an office again. It's not but may once I find the right place to land.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have two people who are on 4-day weeks. It depends on your role(s)... Some are less compatible with part time work.
They get same, equal salary then to the 5-day 40 hour people? Otherwise it would look like you're just profiteering as your main motivator.
Interesting. Why do you think that would be "profiteering as your main motivator" to have as a general principle that as you scale your work you also scale your salary? I'm not sure how that follows. It also seems to be the general principle in all the companies I'm aware of that support part time work, but perhaps there's something I'm missing. I'm all ears.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#326Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, never trade in your existing car at the dealer where you make your new purchase (unless you are a skilled negotiator). Typically, whatever discounts you ask for on the new car, they will quietly subtract from their "evaluation" of your old car's value.
Alternatively, have another offer in hand. CarMax is a good way to establish a minimum quickly and easily. You can always get more in the private market, but you should weigh the trade-offs in speed of transaction. (E.g., I could spend 10 hours and the next 2 weeks posting on Craigslist and dealing with people and get $12k, or I could sell to the dealer now for $10k. That might be worth it to me.) I've done this a co…
> was another individual looking to purchase the same vehicle for more
The idea that a car is a scarce good is a fundamental ruse that car dealers have been establishing for decades.
The car would be at an auction somewhere, not a car lot, if it were actually a scarce item.
Never fall for the "it's going to sell fast!" story. Great. So it does sell fast, there'll be another truckload of them next week.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#327Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say this thread is not a bad first approximation for what you are asking for (but note that high side has a lot of variance and is very much context, person, and importantly, timing dependent and the uniquely highs are always underrepresented in these threads, almost by definition): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11314449 As a skilled junior person without having/being known for specific connections/experti…
Can you define inertia in this context? Does it mean the risk of staying stagnant in a lower paid position?
Yes. Too often, people stay at their jobs, simply because they don't even think about it. Leaving your job requires you to step outside of your routine and do something you don't regularly do. Conversely, staying your job simply requires you to stick to the same routine that you've been doing for years and years.
Don't allow your major life decisions to be made on auto-pilot. If you want to stay, then make a conscious decision and stay. If you haven't made such a conscious decision in years, it's time you had that conversation with yourself.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most discussions about salary negotiation are about postponing the money discussion until we know there's a fit. But what do you do when you-as-applicant need to be sure you're not wasting your time (or theirs)? That is: I'm really senior in my field, with 25 years of experience, and for several years I've been commanding top dollar. (I'm worth it, too!) But often I start discussions with would-be employers (or clien…
> How do I signal to a client, "I'm expensive -- and worth it!" without saying, "Hey, can you afford me? Because otherwise let's not even talk." You're missing a step in your sales process, which is the qualification part. Before letting a conversation go into much details or letting it turn into an interview call, take control and state that you'd like to to spend 10-15 minutes asking questions to make sure they're…
When in doubt: it's better to be the expensive consultant that "we couldn't afford" than the one "we are getting for a steal."
With appropriate qualification, you'll get those referrals and the respect.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
> where this kind of mindset will have all sorts of side-effects that will make it difficult to work with you. I find it difficult to work with people who are compensated less than me. I want my coworkers to be better than me. I do not want to work with people assessed as "masters" making $155,000/year in San Francisco, CA. I am accustomed to working with people being paid more. Full disclosure: Over four years ago,…
Thanks for the open follow-up response. Re-reading, I realise my previous response was a bit unnecessarily snarky. Sorry for that. > I find it difficult to work with people who are compensated less than me. I want my coworkers to be better than me. I much prefer that attitude to the opposite :-) Though surely even better is to work with great people whom you're learning from in a variety of ways, whether or not they…
What about a simple policy of revisiting the salary discussion on a regular (annual?) basis. As long as it's transparent and universal (not just for people who ask for a raise), it seems like it'd be in line with your philosophy.
Re: Salary Negotiation
#330Has anyone tried to beat the interviewer to the punch on the salary question? Put them on the spot by asking their range before they hit you with it?
Yes, but it's typically a factor of a bad HR department. Don't let the recruiter hang up on that first phone screen without satisfying yourself that they could make a competitive offer. Otherwise, you're just wasting time. They should have the same desire, hence this is only an issue with bad HR departments. It's not worth it to jump to salary immediately. You come off as either selfish or naive. So yes, I've done it…
> You come off as either selfish or naive.
Or, if framed appropriately, expensive and valuable.
Your time is money. You do not want to waste it on a role that has compensatory packages beneath what you'd be willing to take. You are a professional doing another professional a favor.
Framing this correctly is a bit more nuanced, however.
If you're talking to an external recruiting or staffing agency, however: immediately jump to salary. They will not hesitate and have no opinion on you as a candidate. You're saving their time and they're not emotionally staked in the possible negotiations to come.