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Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

theatlantic.com

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Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#31
post #10

The Cosmo-ification of HN continues apace. Next week, esr's sex tips FAQ. I know someone will very earnestly explain to me how this is on topic but really, it isn't.

30 year old male here... I'm not really happy for feeling this way, but I treat relationships with women not unlike I treat my jobs/career.

With my career:

I get bored after 1 year, and have never stayed at a company for more than 18 months. Once I understand a company/team, it's hard to picture settling for this position and the realistic growth prospects forever. I'm always networking to find the next job/startup that is more promising than what I have now.

You can fill in the parallels with women, except these feelings creep in even faster.

The confusing bit is, doing this with a job is rewarded. My salary and reputation is much higher for moving around than staying one place.

It's not dissimilar with women. I've been dating more and more attractive women, and I have an easier time bagging them, then dumping them quickly or converting to a relationship depending on how I feel.

I'm a pretty humble person, but on good days I think I will continue to churn through new opportunities for 10 more years, and becoming a rich startup founder with a cool, hot wife isn't out of the question.

At least with respect to his career, how many HN readers don't think this way?

But more and more days now I feel weary. I don't want to work on tons side projects in case they take off, I don't want to hit on strangers at the bar. I want to work reasonable hours, and come home to a woman that is happy to see me.

But still that voice tells me not to settle... When will it, if ever?

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#32
post #28
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't find these types of articles interesting either, but the HN guidelines say this: On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. So if this story has upvotes, I presume some "good hackers" here have found it interesting.

You presume wrongly. Communities begin with a "primary demographic"—people who are there for what it says on the tin. Over time, though, these communities start to lure in "secondary demographics" that are interested in both the community topic and other topics, but then those people in turn lure in "tertiary demographics," who aren't interested in the stated purpose of the community at all, only about the hybrid on-…

To me, "on topic" means an article that is a) not conventional/obvious, b) deep, in the sense that it provides greater analysis than most newspapers/magazines/blog posts, and c) makes me think of some process, idea, trend, method, or ideology in a new way (which ties back into a). All three of those could be further developed as points, but I think they nonetheless help describe what HN is about.

I think "Marry Him!" matches those criteria (since I submitted it): few if any sources covering mating markets and their incentives in as much depth; the stories match some of the data, as developed in books like Tim Harford's The Logic of Life; I hadn't realized the extent to which sexual politics change as one ages. Consequently, "Marry Him!" seems like it would be interesting to the HN crowd. So does the article on Haskell first impression, with its discussion of monads. To me, both belong.

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#33

This article is long and makes me want to throw something at Lori Gottlieb. Not that I'm advocating violence or would commit it... it's just written in that sort of smug, grating style that makes me browse away after the first 10 paragraphs. All she has done is rebranded the concept of "compromise" (important in all sorts of relationships) as "settling." Nothing new or fascinating, there. The deconstruction is hilari…

I think your advice for young women is good. That is what my wife did 20 years ago. Of course as a result she has to put up with me. While I claim this is a good outcome, it is hardly a perfect one...

However as a married atheist I have to point out that marriage is a legal and social construct and not strictly a religious one. I have no trouble pointing to past societies where it was very religious, and ones where it was not religious at all. In short marriage has meaning, and it has meaning for non-religious people as well.

In fact, the divorce rate among atheists is lower than the general public. So one could make a case that marriage matters more to atheists than to the general public!

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#34
post #3

It might sound awful, but this is one of the reasons I avoid dating 28+ girls (I am 29 myself). 1. Too much pressure. (even if it is not explicit, given her standing, it is implicit) 2. I don't know if she likes me for me, or just because her clock is ticking. On the flip side, girls it have really really easy on their early 20s. That might create an "suply is infinite" kind of thinking in girls, and maybe perhaps ev…

By the same logic, no woman should ever come near you since she can't know if you like her for her or because you are driven by the genetic imperative to spread your semen around.

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#35
post #18
post #10

The Cosmo-ification of HN continues apace. Next week, esr's sex tips FAQ. I know someone will very earnestly explain to me how this is on topic but really, it isn't.

I personally don't find these types of articles interesting either, but the HN guidelines say this: On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. So if this story has upvotes, I presume some "good hackers" here have found it interesting.

It's an article about hacking women :-)

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#36
Women are people too - they are not just bags of meat that must have babies to be happy.

Don't ever settle, because doing that is always a certain path to endless misery and longing for what you could have had. Yes, life is short, but that's all the more reason to stick to your ideals, and make sure that you choose your ideals carefully (so that you're successful!)

Just think about how settling would ruin your honesty. Imagine what it would be like if you were to see your spouse and think, "I thought I could do better than you, but I gave up trying to find someone decent. You're okay, I guess." Settling requires you to take these thoughts and "set them aside" - evade them - constantly. Doing this does not result in love, or a happy life for anyone (including the children of divorced parents).

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#37
Here's a rational approach that may be appreciated here :)

Make a concious decision to try and settle down with one of the first 6 girls you date. Here's the rules:

1) don't settle for the first one you date.

2) the next one you date that is better than the first one you dated is the one you settle for.

Why? Do the math. Let's label them 123456.

If you date 1 first, you have 1 in 5 chance of ending up with any of the others (1 in 30 for each)

If you date 2 first, you end up with 1 (1 in 6)

If you date 3 first, you can end up with 1 or 2 (1 in 12 each)

If you date 4 first, you can end up with 1, 2 or 3 (1 in 18 each)

If you date 5 first, you end up with 1, 2, 3 or 4 (1 in 24 each)

If you date 6 first, you end up with 1,2 .. 5 (1 in 30 each).

Add that up, and the odds of you settling for each woman are:

1 - 38.1%, 2 - 24.7%, 3 - 16.4%, 4 - 10.1%, 5 - 6.7%, 6 - 3.3%

So, 79.2% of the time you "settle" for someone above average. And, for the other 20.8%? You can always split up before it's too late :)

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#38
post #6

Lori Gottlieb, in The Atlantic, writes "Marry Him!", and describes a problem so pervasive and urgent it's hard to imagine Obama hasn't cleared his desk: what's an "independent," "feminist," "heterosexual" 40-something "woman" with a sperm-donor child to do when she can't find a man to marry her? I found this analysis of the author much more interesting than the original article: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/02…

This is just an analysis of the author, in no point it addresses the issue that she mentions. The "psych" just calls her ideas "dangerous" in the end, and sticks to an ad-hominem. I'd like to read someone who can actually find a counter-argument to her thesis and convince me that the best thing women can do is to hold on to their ideal all the way to the end.

Ad hominem isn't always a fallacy. Now, I don't know if this analysis of the author is necessarily accurate, but it smacks of plausibility to me because I've seen it before. As people, both men and women, remain single as they get older, they grow more and more accustomed to thinking almost entirely about their own concerns. This kind of self-focus makes it harder and harder to establish and maintain relationships. If you can't get your focus off yourself and off "the relationship" and onto the other person, you're going to have a hard time finding any lasting relationship at all.

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#39
I hate being a 20-something women. Everybody on the planet, from doctors to HN, feels the need to comment on the apparently glaring biological clock ticking over my head, and make assumptions about A) my happiness and B) my nefarious ulterior dating motives.

I will posit that there exist women who don't base their self-worth and happiness entirely on the approval and acceptance of a man. I will further posit that there are women who aren't married by 30 because they haven't met someone they want to marry yet and are totally OK with that.

Later first marriages are more likely to last anyway.

(And do men really want to be settled for? Like "sure I'll marry you; you're not totally horrible"?)

Re: Marry Him: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough

#40
post #10

The Cosmo-ification of HN continues apace. Next week, esr's sex tips FAQ. I know someone will very earnestly explain to me how this is on topic but really, it isn't.

Erlang innards are hard. Let's go shopping.

Spoken like a true Barbie Computer Engineer
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