Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 229 posts

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#101

Post by tremon »

gjulianm wrote: post #68
petewailes wrote: post #3

Pithy answer: because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear. When you have a simple world view, nuance is always going to escape you. An educated person can understand that the world isn't simple, which will lead to a more liberal view, as liberal views tend to be based on the assumption that angry, narrow world view responses aren't a good thing. Some…

I find this comment to be borderline insulting, even when my political views are very liberal. Basically, what I read in your comment (maybe I'm misreading it) is that not having a liberal view means that the person does not understand the world, has an angry response, ignores the complexities of life and does not understand anything. So, instead of just trying to understand what do these people think, feel and fear…

I find this comment to be borderline insulting

Why? Most of what the parent wrote is factual and descriptive, not prescriptive or disparaging. The post doesn't condemn anyone. I find your response just as unpleasant, because you seem to be suggesting that this line of discourse should be shunned, which frankly isn't going to help anyone.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#102

Post by lsd5you »

blowski wrote: post #18

And I guess the converse question which has vexed socialists for decades - why do so many of the poor vote for centre-right, business-friendly parties? For example, why did so many working class people vote for Thatcher in UK in the 1980s? Why are they not massively in favour of Jeremy Corbyn right now? I'm not saying it's irrational. But sometimes it's odd to hear people who need the government to subsidise their mi…

I think if the socialists are vexed then it is because they are part of the liberal 'elite' who basically don't understand the type of person who - according to their income - they patronisingly expect to always vote for them. The one dimensional politcal spectrum cannot hope to accommodate everyones views.

Apart from the fear that socialism could tank the economy and leave everyone worse off, there are a number of other reasons.

It used to be (in the Thatcher years) about one nation conservatism, though that supposedly died along time ago. A patriotic desire to put ones own country before oneself, which in recent years has been all about the strength of the economy. This is supposedly dead now, or certainly a smaller factor than it used to be.

Now I would argue it is because many poorer people are not bought into utopian/universalist agenda. The logical conclusion of this is helping the rest of the world before helping them. Many will view others, perhaps only slightly below themselves in economic terms as deserving of what they get, or even undeserving of the help they already receive. Immigration also plays into this (in a big way currently).

I would also argue that many believe state intervention is horribly uneven and unfair. Some people have the fortune to be heavily subsidised to live in pretty desirable places, or receive a lot of social care, whereas others struggle to get anything out of the system whatsoever.

Poorer people in the UK often face an effective marginal tax rate of 60-100%. i.e. It doesn't pay to work. More socialism would only serve to excacerbate this. In reality the figure could be considered even higher once wealth thresholds are accounted for. If you save any money above (is it >35,000 pounds?) then you have to pay for your own social care in old age. If you have > 8000 pounds then you are disentitled from a lot of things too.

One thing that is somewhat specific to the UK is that we have a needs based welfare system, as opposed to an entitlement based system (e.g. France). Being more needy jumps you to the front of the queue.

I think above a certain income threshhold it easy to feel removed from this conflict (below) and feel as if you are operating in a capitalist/meritocratic system, but at the bottom the incentives are really quite perverse.

Personally I think the most important political axis is honest/dishonest (or integrity vs corruption), and there is plenty of injustice at all levels of life. We should put the socialists in charge of (regulating) the banks and the conservitives in charge of administering wellfare.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#104

Post by tremon »

mapleoin wrote: post #46
edanm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually true? Plenty of former Russians are very anti socialist, because of their experience with communism. They would say that their larger experience causes them to fear things that sound good in theory, but are terrible in practice. Either way, I doubt you could get away with saying they have a simple worldview without nuance. I think your view really boils down to "i'm right they're wrong, so of course…

How does one get to be a former Russian?

By being born under the iron curtain, then having your country liberated after the fall of the USSR.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#105

Post by jessaustin »

psychometry wrote: post #37
vegancap wrote: post #9

Probably because the education system, in most western countries is largely subsidised by government. So the professors, and the teachers who are largely on public payroll, are bound to be less critical of government, than, say someone in the private sector. Which in turn will permeate those who they teach. It's in their best interest to then spread ideals which uphold their government funding.

Well that's...a reach. There's more to the American liberal outlook than support for government programs. I'm guessing you didn't read the article; you might want to do that first and attempt a more substantial comment later.

If there were "more to the American liberal outlook than support for government programs", a thoughtful ("substantial"?) comment would have given us some examples of such, and then related those examples somehow to the proposition under discussion. Your comment, instead, amounts to "RTFA!"

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#106

Post by ryall »

Because empathy requires effort and a certain level of intellect. My personal experience is that less educated people tend to view the world through a filter of their own experiences and don't realise (or choose to ignore) the possibility of a situation vastly different to their own. Highly educated people are exposed to philosophies and opinions that provoke thought and analysis. They are used to engaging in thought experiments and utilising imagination to consider many facets of an issue. I suppose you could say that they are trained to think rather than view something at face value.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#107

Post by dagw »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #59
gaius wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear Such as a highly educated media worker, has no fear of the factory closing because the company has found somewhere with lower taxes and relaxed pollution laws? This is the appeal of Trump: he is the only candidate who doesn't want to send his demographics jobs offshore. It absolutely makes perfect sense for…

> he is the only candidate who doesn't want to send his demographics jobs offshore Or at least he'll say that. Whether he'll a) change his mind the next day, b) have any feasible plan to implement this, c) whether it's actually a net-positive for his demographic, d) whether he supports a bunch of other things that will hurt this demographic are all less clear. I mean this is a man who manufactures stuff in China hims…

Or at least he'll say that.

Given a choice between someone who promises to fight for the thing you care about, but might be lying, and someone who promises to not fight for the thing you care about, the choice seems easy.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#108

Post by dagw »

mapleoin wrote: post #46
edanm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this actually true? Plenty of former Russians are very anti socialist, because of their experience with communism. They would say that their larger experience causes them to fear things that sound good in theory, but are terrible in practice. Either way, I doubt you could get away with saying they have a simple worldview without nuance. I think your view really boils down to "i'm right they're wrong, so of course…

How does one get to be a former Russian?

By moving to, and taking up citizenship in, a new country.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#109

Post by rimantas »

gjulianm wrote: post #68
petewailes wrote: post #3

Pithy answer: because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear. When you have a simple world view, nuance is always going to escape you. An educated person can understand that the world isn't simple, which will lead to a more liberal view, as liberal views tend to be based on the assumption that angry, narrow world view responses aren't a good thing. Some…

I find this comment to be borderline insulting, even when my political views are very liberal. Basically, what I read in your comment (maybe I'm misreading it) is that not having a liberal view means that the person does not understand the world, has an angry response, ignores the complexities of life and does not understand anything. So, instead of just trying to understand what do these people think, feel and fear…

Yes, religion in the same bucket (and largely responsible for the existence of the bucket itself). Why look for answers when they all are in THE BOOK?

  > A degree just gives you knowledge in a specific area, and
  > does not make anyone more intelligent just by having it.
In many (most?) cases a degree also means that you became familiar and aquired skills needed for problems solving and answer finding. And even if raw intelligence may be the same it gives tremendous advantage.

Re: Why Are the Highly Educated So Liberal?

#110

Post by tremon »

nickysielicki wrote: post #27
petewailes wrote: post #3

Pithy answer: because you aren't going to be afraid of something when you understand that it's not something you need to fear. When you have a simple world view, nuance is always going to escape you. An educated person can understand that the world isn't simple, which will lead to a more liberal view, as liberal views tend to be based on the assumption that angry, narrow world view responses aren't a good thing. Some…

If I listen closely, I'm pretty sure that I can hear you patting yourself on the back through my computer. Your comment boils down to saying, "Because education opens your mind," which is completely asinine. Political science and philosophy are not young fields. Where would Aristotle, Hobbes, Machiavelli, Locke, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin or Madison fall today? Are you telling me that you find it reasonable to thi…

Where would Aristotle, Hobbes, Machiavelli, Locke, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin or Madison fall today

That's an uninteresting question. Environments change, and so do our definitions. I don't know much about your founding fathers beyond the Declaration of Independence, but I'd say all those mentioned were progressives in their own time.

Post reply on HN