Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

themacro.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 329 posts

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#241

Post by imron »

exstudent2 wrote: post #187
imron wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know it's boring and very, very hard work So you're now agreeing with 'unfulfilling manual labor'?

hard != unfulfilling. The result is very fulfilling. It's really telling that raising a child being fulfilling is even up for debate.

hard != unfulfilling.

I agree. I was going for boring ≈ unfulfilling.

I don't think anyone was talking about whether raising a child is fulfilling or not, rather it was that the process often involves unfulfilling manual labor.

Two very different things and you're conflating discussion of latter with the former.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#242

Post by imron »

cgriswald wrote: post #223
exstudent2 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hard != unfulfilling. The result is very fulfilling. It's really telling that raising a child being fulfilling is even up for debate.

That's the debate only in your own mind. You've completely failed to grasp the not-so-nuanced context. He's not talking about the raising of the child, but the meaningless, but necessary, work that goes with it. Watching my kid succeed at something that I've helped her to learn is very fulfilling. But no matter how much you protest, being a stay-at-home dad was filled with thankless, unfulfilling tasks. I gagged -eve…

> The "result" of changing those diapers? Another filled diaper.

I am so looking forward to my kid being toilet trained.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#243

Post by marvin »

bravura wrote: post #140
andrepd wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least where I come from I do not feel that in the slightest.

Trans-men report the opposite: http://time.com/transgender-men-sexism/ 'Most trans men I spoke to also identified another commonality: Once they transitioned [from female to male], walking became easier, but talking became harder. To be more specific: walking home after dark felt easier, casually talking to babies, strangers and friends felt harder. “I have to be very careful to not be staring at kids,” says Gardner.…

Unfortunately not too surprising, but that's still a very interesting anecdotal data point from someone in a position to see the contrast.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#244

Post by MarkMc »

rayiner wrote: post #132
gshulegaard wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "we presume that observations are not caused by biological differences without concrete evidence of those differences. The corollary to that is that disparities in outcome are prima facie evidence of disparities in opportunity." Ummm...the first part is fine, the corollary reasoning is what is academically dishonest. Prima facie is not academically acceptable when determining causal relationships in statistics. The…

The corollary follows from the first part because of the nature/nurture dichotomy. It's either biological, or sociological. If you presume it's not the former, unless we have evidence thereof, we must presume it's the latter. What else could it be? Also, what is acceptable for proving a causal relationship in a statistical sense is not coextensive with what's academically honest. In the real world people have to make…

> If you presume it's not the former, unless we have evidence thereof, we must presume it's the latter.

Your presumption seems to favour the sociological explanation. Why do you not say, "If you presume it's not the latter, unless we have evidence thereof, we must presume it's the former"?

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#245

Post by ownagefool »

ksenzee wrote: post #34
larrik wrote: post #7

Women who are halfway into their careers in tech are leaving at a rate of 56%, which is more than double the quit rate of men. One reason for the high quit rate may be that women have a much lower chance of being promoted, even when they have the same amount of experience and tenure as their male peers, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. So around the time a lot of people have kids? They probably…

> you need to make a LOT of money to pay for daycare per kid That's true. But as it happens, engineers do make a lot of money. Many of us even make enough to support one-income families. You can't just assume senior engineers leave tech because of childcare costs, when most of us make well over the amount where you "might as well just stay home."

Actually quite a lot of tech isn't making bank. Some do, but usually this is spread within certian niches and locations.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#246

Post by greggman »

deciplex wrote: post #201
H0n3sty wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the "privilege" you think you see is actually a difference in average ability or preferences between groups of people that are in fact different from each other? Affirmative action does not help the groups it is directed towards, it simply handicaps them further by preventing them from being properly matched to their level or ability. Clarence Thomas recently wrote about this in detail... Slaveholders argued…

Promoting university enrollment for disadvantaged students really, like fucking really , is not the same as enslaving them. Likewise segregation was bad for a host of reasons among which was social isolation and misappropriation of resources (i.e. whites-only schools were well-funded while blacks-only schools were left to languish), both of which affirmative action is designed to remedy (and objectively does remedy b…

There was an interesting Intelligence Squared US on Affirmative Action

http://intelligencesquaredus.org/debates/past-debates/item/1...

The side arguing against affirmative action basically claimed they're for the idea of fixing the inequalities but that affirmative action with colleges is actually a net negative. In other words it's not making things more equal it's making them worse.

Their argument was basically that most kids inserted into top schools by affirmative action fail because they aren't at the level of the other students. Because they fail they don't become the things we want them to be come (doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc) and so the circle of inequality continues.

Where as if instead they went to a school with more students at the same level they'd more likely graduate, get the good jobs, and their kids would then make it to the high end schools. A win-win.

I don't know if it's true or not. They claimed to have lots of studies to back them up. But regardless it was interesting food for thought.

I'd love to have a more diverse workplace both in race and sex. I don't know the best way to get there.

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#247

Post by facepalm »

belorn wrote: post #20
larrik wrote: post #7

Women who are halfway into their careers in tech are leaving at a rate of 56%, which is more than double the quit rate of men. One reason for the high quit rate may be that women have a much lower chance of being promoted, even when they have the same amount of experience and tenure as their male peers, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. So around the time a lot of people have kids? They probably…

I find it quite interesting that a similar number of 50% of men who enter the teacher profession also leaves while the number for women is about half. In stark contrast however, the quote text, the theory on why men drops out of female dominated professions share nothing in common with the theories on why women leave male dominated. In a 2009 report by the Swedish national agency, they argue that the reason why peopl…

"they argue"

They speculate, you mean? Those are all "just so" stories...

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#248

Post by facepalm »

belorn wrote: post #20
larrik wrote: post #7

Women who are halfway into their careers in tech are leaving at a rate of 56%, which is more than double the quit rate of men. One reason for the high quit rate may be that women have a much lower chance of being promoted, even when they have the same amount of experience and tenure as their male peers, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research. So around the time a lot of people have kids? They probably…

I find it quite interesting that a similar number of 50% of men who enter the teacher profession also leaves while the number for women is about half. In stark contrast however, the quote text, the theory on why men drops out of female dominated professions share nothing in common with the theories on why women leave male dominated. In a 2009 report by the Swedish national agency, they argue that the reason why peopl…

Do you have a citation for the "50% of male teachers leave"? I'd be interested in the details. Thanks!

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#249

Post by tomp »

morgtheborg wrote: post #231
HarshTruth wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The immense pressure is the women's own doing. Women largely prefer to partner with men who make more money than them, so naturally if one partner becomes a stay at home parent it makes more sense economically for it to be the woman. If women don't like the pressure to be a stay at home parent, then women can start marrying men who make less money than them (men don't as a group place little value on their partner ma…

As a women who would love to have my future husband raise the kids, let me tell you it's not easy to find an intelligent man in a big city who is willing to stay home and raise children.

Do you know what their reasons are? I'm really curious, because that seems the obvious choice for me (assuming your wife is earning enough).

Re: Women Who Code (YC S16) helps female engineers level up in their careers

#250

Post by rimantas »

nostrebored wrote: post #51
busterarm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we know that that's the reason that more women are deciding to stay home? This looks like a big conclusion to draw when the data only _may_ correlate. Where's the survey of double-income family moms working in tech where they specified the reason why they chose to stay at home? There are a lot of reports coming out that look at numbers and say what may be the reason, but I've yet to see anyone go ask women the rea…

Oh, I've done this, let me tell you why: 1) People in tech are assholes to women. I don't think most of them realize they're doing it. Sending images of swimsuit models over slack or otherwise sexualizing your work environment is an awful idea, and you shouldn't do it even if you don't have women on your team. My partner gets asked out by coworkers regularly, even while pregnant. 2) No really, people in tech are assh…

So when the same is done to males it is not being assholes for some reason?
Post reply on HN