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Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

magenta.tensorflow.org

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Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#21

Post by reqctomaniac »

julianpye wrote: post #16

Keyboards have been popping out automatic C-maj, A-min, F-maj, G-maj progressions for fourty years now. And with the typical toolset for electronic music, it will be easily capable to create something similar. But the masterpieces of music demand something altogether different. Beethoven's break with consistency by switching keys in the adagio of the 5th piano concerto. Wagner introducing the Tristan chord, Berg usin…

Thats a very narrow definition. Music is sound we interpret. There is no reason why computers cannot "compose" meaningful to us music. Of course it will probably be by happenchance, but nonetheless. Also computers are good at finding patterns. There is definitely a chance they (I should write "it" but cant reformulate so it sounds good) can find patterns interesting to us.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#22

Post by aclissold »

julianpye wrote: post #16

Keyboards have been popping out automatic C-maj, A-min, F-maj, G-maj progressions for fourty years now. And with the typical toolset for electronic music, it will be easily capable to create something similar. But the masterpieces of music demand something altogether different. Beethoven's break with consistency by switching keys in the adagio of the 5th piano concerto. Wagner introducing the Tristan chord, Berg usin…

Regarding Kindertotenlieder, he didn't actually lose any children until after he wrote it. Quoth Wikipedia [0]:

“I placed myself in the situation that a child of mine had died. When I really lost my daughter, I could not have written these songs any more.”

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindertotenlieder

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#23

Post by SanderMak »

ElHacker wrote: post #7
my_username_is_ wrote: post #3

Having recently spent some time browsing the submissions of /r/deepdream and seeing how far computer generated imaging has come, I have no doubts that one day we will be listening to wonderful sounds that are generated by artificial intelligence. However an intrinsic part of the music (to me, anyways) as an art form, is the humanity of it. A computer can generate lyrics that are relatable on the surface, but knowing…

> but knowing that there isn't a person behind those words, feeling what I'm feeling, definitely detracts from the experience of the whole. It would be very interesting to create a secret fake person profile and publish AI generated music under that fake name and see if humans feel identified with the lyrics and music. See how far it goes, who knows, maybe create the next super star. Then to later reveal the secret.

You should see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_(2002_film), sounds like you'll enjoy its premise.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#24

Post by davedx »

aclissold wrote: post #22
julianpye wrote: post #16

Keyboards have been popping out automatic C-maj, A-min, F-maj, G-maj progressions for fourty years now. And with the typical toolset for electronic music, it will be easily capable to create something similar. But the masterpieces of music demand something altogether different. Beethoven's break with consistency by switching keys in the adagio of the 5th piano concerto. Wagner introducing the Tristan chord, Berg usin…

Regarding Kindertotenlieder, he didn't actually lose any children until after he wrote it. Quoth Wikipedia [0]: “I placed myself in the situation that a child of mine had died. When I really lost my daughter, I could not have written these songs any more.” [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindertotenlieder

Wow, those poems are wrenching, even in translated form. They really are an open door to somebody's personal grief.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#25

Post by ashleyblackmore »

People want and need other people around, doing human things. Even if the musical output was impressive, I can't think of people developing a deep relationship with it outside of novelty. Algorithms are cold, and music is usually very much the opposite - I can see an "uncanny valley" effect cropping up with the imitative forms: people hearing something that is supposed to come across as laden with emotion, instead leads people to revulsion. What do we get out of computers composing songs that are supposed to relate to the fragility of the human condition?

Sure, the algorithms, once sufficiently advanced, could probably trick us into thinking that certain examples of generative music were made by a person and then later reveal its algorithmic origin to prove that "the humans are stupid" and "the google algorithms are clever" but what are we actually proving here?

Can a computer devise new artistic forms that have some genuine impact on people - can a computer come up with Bacon's Triptych of George Dyer outside of regurgitating fragments of what it already has seen? What do we get out of a computer aping the alcohol-fuelled sweaty anarchic performances of The Black Lips?

The interesting stuff will be to see if this goes to other places that music has not yet gone - some new composition method - manipulation of frequency in ways that humans have not yet devised.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#26

Post by [deleted] »

ashleyblackmore wrote: post #25

People want and need other people around, doing human things. Even if the musical output was impressive, I can't think of people developing a deep relationship with it outside of novelty. Algorithms are cold, and music is usually very much the opposite - I can see an "uncanny valley" effect cropping up with the imitative forms: people hearing something that is supposed to come across as laden with emotion, instead le…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#27

Post by dharma1 »

jonknee wrote: post #6
zer00eyz wrote: post #4

This is interesting, but it feels a lot like a moonshot, and it isn't even groundbreaking. The approach may be novel but folks have been trying this for a while http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/music_box/2010/05/ill_be_... Can code generate a catchy pop tune? Im sure it can. Would I qualify it as music? Probably not. Music can pull from sources that are EXTERNAL to the music: Heres a modern track that does just suc…

What about it sounds like a moonshot? It's using an existing Google open source project and is looking to use it for an artistic purpose along with building a community. Honestly it sounds like a 20% project from a couple of people on the TensorFlow project. Almost 0 cost.

Plus potential PR value for Google if something meaningful comes out, the press loves AI stories like this. It feels like the effort invested in AlphaGo was at least partially because of marketing, establishing Google as a leader in AI.

This will also help attract young researchers to Tensorflow, so a low cost win for them.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#28

Post by alive2007 »

ashleyblackmore wrote: post #25

People want and need other people around, doing human things. Even if the musical output was impressive, I can't think of people developing a deep relationship with it outside of novelty. Algorithms are cold, and music is usually very much the opposite - I can see an "uncanny valley" effect cropping up with the imitative forms: people hearing something that is supposed to come across as laden with emotion, instead le…

I see this sort of application having a lot of use in the kinds of derivative pop music developed by ensembles of songwriters and manufactured purely to generate radio hits. Bacon's Triptych of George Dyer is genius. The average person listening to Taylor Swift just does not care about Bacon's Triptych of George Dyer.

In a way, Magenta's job is not besting Bach. By the definition of Bach (a human being who changes the way we view and enjoy music), a non-human being cannot best Bach. Magenta's job is besting a much simpler, if equally challenging role - Max Martin, or the writers of "Let it Go".

As it turns out, this kind of music is already pretty formulaic. Much has been written on repetitive chord progressions being spammed across hundreds of famous singles. In a way, artists shouldn't fear the potential of these technologies besting them - they should thank them.

Freed now are artists from loading their albums with eye-rollingly generic lead singles that they immediately get sick of ("Stairway to Heaven", "Creep", "Smells Like Teen Spirit") because record labels know that's what will get the most radio play. You can just let the machine do those. Now, an artists' reputation is determined purely by his relative mettle against other human artists.

Re: Welcome to Magenta – Google music AI project

#29

Post by onion2k »

ashleyblackmore wrote: post #25

People want and need other people around, doing human things. Even if the musical output was impressive, I can't think of people developing a deep relationship with it outside of novelty. Algorithms are cold, and music is usually very much the opposite - I can see an "uncanny valley" effect cropping up with the imitative forms: people hearing something that is supposed to come across as laden with emotion, instead le…

Even if the musical output was impressive, I can't think of people developing a deep relationship with it outside of novelty.

There are plenty of times and places where people want high quality "music" but don't want to actually engage with it on any level - the music that tells you you're still connected when you're waiting for a conference call, the low volume background music in some retail environments, the music in a lift. If "pleasant musical noise" could be generated automatically and to a sufficient quality I think there'd be a pretty decent market for it.

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