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Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

nextcloud.com

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Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#91

Post by mahyarm »

alexggordon wrote: post #73
alexggordon wrote: post #29

Let me tell you an anecdote about Owncloud. Once upon a time, I hosted an Owncloud instance for my family. I had a raid 5 system setup on an old Xserve with around 10 TB of usable space. I was really into learning about encryption at the time, so I figured it would be cool to encrypt all my families files on the server. I made sure that all my family members were properly educated about not forgetting their password,…

Replying to my own comment, because I'm out of the edit time-range and this kind of blew up. If I had to point the discussion of this comment, I'd point it away from what I did wrong personally (I know I f*cked up in probably more than one way). What I learned from this is that there are no situations in which I would personally host a file server of this feature level and control over my documents. I think "all in o…

This is why you want client side encrypted clients who treat your NAS/Cloud Account/HDD as dumb storage. This way it's easy to immediately verify on your client computer that entire CRUD cycle works fine, and continues to work fine.

It also allows you to have simple redundancy, so if your NAS setup fucks up, the cloud account and external hard drive version is still there.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#92

Post by notatoad »

thomnottom wrote: post #86
alexggordon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to my own comment, because I'm out of the edit time-range and this kind of blew up. If I had to point the discussion of this comment, I'd point it away from what I did wrong personally (I know I f*cked up in probably more than one way). What I learned from this is that there are no situations in which I would personally host a file server of this feature level and control over my documents. I think "all in o…

> I guess the question I raise is, given my experience "can you prove to me that I can absolutely trust you with all my data"? But the answer to that is "no". All of the time. No matter who you are asking it about. There is always the possibility of someone - no matter how much you trust them or pay them - screwing up your data. Including yourself.

>There is always the possibility of someone - no matter how much you trust them or pay them - screwing up your data. Including yourself.

Especially yourself. I trust a product with dedicated administrators who do nothing but keep people's data safe to do a much better job than i could ever do myself. I don't want that kind of responsibility when google and dropbox are willing to do it for me for a couple bucks a month.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#93

Post by fapjacks »

Yeah, no shit! This is no surprise to me whatsoever. Owncloud has been stuck in a rut for a long time! I'm assuming that taking 90% of the top contributors means they'll still be taking along a hefty amount of the politics, but maybe with a fresh outlook this project will become competitive again.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#94

Post by NuSkooler »

I've been using ownCloud for quite some time now with a handful of users and many clients across Windows, Android, Linux, and OS X without any issues. This is running in a FreeBSD jail.

I too wish it wasn't written in PHP as I'd be inclined to add features, but I haven't had any of the issues mentioned in this thread.

What is the reasoning behind this new fork again?

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#95

Post by CaptSpify »

tomc1985 wrote: post #90
antx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sorry about your loss. Then again, please understand that NO, you didn't have a backup. What you had was a single copy (probably a simple rsync, am I right?)... that is worth nothing in case of corruption or voluntary mischief. Learn from your mistakes. Either use a solution that has a retention policy, or don't do backups at all.

So, what, everyone is cool with owncloud pushing encryption-breaking updates? What the fuck is that about? The way apologists step up to the defense of stuff like this is appalling. The 'hard' stuff like this is supposed to be dealt with before the public release. Just because one has a backup doesn't mean that other programmers should force them to rely on it (whether they intended to or not... the point is that thi…

I don't think I've seen anyone say owncloud is not responsible. Yes, they fucked up, and royally.

But in the end, you can't trust them to not fuck up. You have to trust that they will make a mistake, so be prepared for it. Doing backups right is just really hard.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#96

Post by Karunamon »

jwildeboer wrote: post #79
Karunamon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a great codified set of best practices - but why the prohibition on topic branches? The project SHALL NOT use topic branches for any reason. This is a main tenet of git-flow, and it's hardly uncommon.

The direct explanation is at http://hintjens.com/blog:117#toc47 but you should read the whole post. Or even better the book Social Architecture.

Excellent link, and thanks, but the branching thing is hardly touched on, other than a quick small paragraph that reads like "it's too hard for people to learn".

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#97

Post by toomuchtodo »

mahyarm wrote: post #91
alexggordon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to my own comment, because I'm out of the edit time-range and this kind of blew up. If I had to point the discussion of this comment, I'd point it away from what I did wrong personally (I know I f*cked up in probably more than one way). What I learned from this is that there are no situations in which I would personally host a file server of this feature level and control over my documents. I think "all in o…

This is why you want client side encrypted clients who treat your NAS/Cloud Account/HDD as dumb storage. This way it's easy to immediately verify on your client computer that entire CRUD cycle works fine, and continues to work fine. It also allows you to have simple redundancy, so if your NAS setup fucks up, the cloud account and external hard drive version is still there.

I dump GPG and Truecrypt files right into my 1TB Dropbox folder. Works fine, $10/month. I'd never go back to managing my own NAS locally.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#98

Post by Pxtl »

mseebach wrote: post #33
alexggordon wrote: post #29

Let me tell you an anecdote about Owncloud. Once upon a time, I hosted an Owncloud instance for my family. I had a raid 5 system setup on an old Xserve with around 10 TB of usable space. I was really into learning about encryption at the time, so I figured it would be cool to encrypt all my families files on the server. I made sure that all my family members were properly educated about not forgetting their password,…

I don't mean to belittle the severity of the bug you encountered -- but the root-cause of your problem was a lack of a backup. A large number of issues, some of them software bugs, many of them not, could lead to data loss. It that vein, too, your RAID-5 system is/was a disaster waiting to happen, especially when you don't have a backup: http://www.zdnet.com/article/raidfail-dont-use-raid-5-on-sma...

No. The user should have a backup, but you can never blame a software problem on a lack of backup. That's like blaming a car-accident malfunctioning airbags.

The software screwed up and his backup strategy failed. The software didn't screw up because his backup strategy failed.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#99

Post by Pxtl »

mnutt wrote: post #65
api wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're holding it wrong." He did have a backup. Having it also be mysteriously borked certainly violates the principle of least surprise. That's a bug like Fukushima is an industrial accident.

If you want to rely on backups, you have to test them periodically and not overwrite older ones with newer ones. It sounds like the backups had probably never worked, or there was some necessary component that was not backed up.

Considering the number of problems we describe in backups

1) You need incremental backups, not just a live copy, so you can rollback.

2) You need redundancy both connected/disconnected and offsite.

3) You need to test restoring.

All these requirements... how do we not expect the user to screw up? This is like crypto, except every idiot knows "don't roll your own, you'll screw that up and leave a hole".

Same problem with OwnCloud itself - it requires too much configuration, as the OP explained.

Why are we doing all this garbage manually? Where's the automatic backup solution that provides differential incremental backups so you can rollback to various points, integrates with Google/Dropbox/whatever, integrates with OwnCloud, lets you plug in an external HDD for regular disconnected backups, etc.

Re: Owncloud has been forked into Nextcloud

#100

Post by alexggordon »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #97
mahyarm wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you want client side encrypted clients who treat your NAS/Cloud Account/HDD as dumb storage. This way it's easy to immediately verify on your client computer that entire CRUD cycle works fine, and continues to work fine. It also allows you to have simple redundancy, so if your NAS setup fucks up, the cloud account and external hard drive version is still there.

I dump GPG and Truecrypt files right into my 1TB Dropbox folder. Works fine, $10/month. I'd never go back to managing my own NAS locally.

Have you tried out dropbox infinite yet with that setup?
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