Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons • Hacker News Board

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#221

Post by internaut » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:04 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #211

oxryly1 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the only entities complaining about this are themselves journalists. They're just closing ranks.

> Note that the only entities complaining about this are themselves journalists. They're just closing ranks It would have been hilarious if someone had similarly casually dismissed the uproar software engineers were making over Oracle v Google: Note that the only entities complaining about API copyrights are themselves developers. They're just closing ranks

Would that not be true?

We do have our opinions and they do stem how we do work. Therefore we have interests, received opinions and such.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#222

Post by altoz » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

GVIrish wrote: post #134

wrsh07 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither side here looks great. It's reasonable for someone to sue Gawker because of what they publish. It's a bit scary to have someone attempt to take down a publishing company just because of a long-held grudge. That's a template for private censorship by the rich.

To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore. In this case, Gawker lost because they were in the wrong. A media company operating with integrity has nothing to fear here.

> To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore

It already is scary because people are taken down by the media company simply publishing lies because they can't afford to sue.

Crying on behalf of Gawker in this case is a lot like crying for the bully that's finally getting punished.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#223

Post by ctulek » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #181

ctulek wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Thiel didn't have a history with Gawker, I would believe to this nobel cause. However, it is obvious that he is using his power for personal revenge. The short article just tries to show that the new billionaires are not different than old billionaires. They won't hesitate to use their power for personal gain in any area. Well, you may say, of course, they will use their power for their personal gain. Well, yes, t…

> If Thiel didn't have a history with Gawker, I would believe to this nobel cause. Thiel's history with Gawker is irrelevant to whether the cause is noble. If the cause is noble, it's noble regardless of who is funding it and why. If funding cancer research is noble, it is still noble even if you became interested because you had cancer.

I didn't discuss whether the cause is noble or not. I discussed whether what Peter Thiel is doing noble or not. I don't find his action noble. In other words, that someone supports a noble cause does not make them noble, one should also check their intentions.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#224

Post by internaut » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #219

Extremely wealthy people are just like any other group of people in that they come in all shapes and sizes. Here, one very wealthy individual used his money to fund someone else's lawsuit. He did so secretly. He did so against an organization that had harmed him and against which he presumably wanted payback but that also had done a gratuitously damaging and sleazy act as part of a pattern of sleazy acts upon which i…

He is not using sloppy reasoning, he is only saying what members of the media have been thinking for a long time now.

The media see us as competition.

More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11824117

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#225

Post by lhnz » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:08 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #218

bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

>"Gawker wasn't speaking truth to power and criticizing individuals. Gawker posted an illegally obtained sex-tape. " Nice deflection! No one cared about the sex tape, they cared about the racist rant contained therein. Tony did not sue Gawker because of a sex tape (although that was the vector Thiel's lawyers chose), he sued them for exposing a racist rant of his. To claim that exposing his racist rant isn't criticiz…

There wasn't a racist tirade in the video posted by Gawker. Your facts are wrong.

The racist tirade was published by two completely different publications much later on by July 24, 2015. As far as I remember, by this point, Hogan had already been suing Gawker for releasing the sex tape for quite a while.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#226

Post by stale2002 » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #159

ThomPete wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between winning a lawsuit to right a wrong and then to go further and actually try to take down a paper. Whatever Gawker did to Theil it's not worth doing what he is doing but thats up to him. The problem though is that as extreme wealth gets put into fewer hands it allow them to basically bleed anything skeptical to this out. Furthermore and as a sidenote. I find it ironic that Theil of all peo…

> I find it ironic that Theil of all people, a libertarian who claims we more or less don't need government end up kind of illustrating exactly why we do. I also find his actions ironic, but maybe for the opposite reason. In funding this lawsuit, Thiel appears to be funding the initiation of force -- bringing the power of government to bear against a private organization which hasn't used force or the threat of force…

They actually did use violence.

If I set up a hidden camera in your shower, and post the results on youtube, most libertarians would agree that I have committed some sort violence against you or your property.

If instead, I pay someone else to set up hidden cameras in your shower, I have also helped commit violence against you.

Thats basically what Gawker did in this case.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#227

Post by davesque » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #219

Extremely wealthy people are just like any other group of people in that they come in all shapes and sizes. Here, one very wealthy individual used his money to fund someone else's lawsuit. He did so secretly. He did so against an organization that had harmed him and against which he presumably wanted payback but that also had done a gratuitously damaging and sleazy act as part of a pattern of sleazy acts upon which i…

Actually, the main point of the article was not really that Thiel had done something wrong. The point was that, given the average person's (not tech nerds, mind you) understanding of silicon valley's utopian dreams, the revelation of Thiel's secrecy is not going to look good. It's a matter of public opinion, whether or not that's fair. I agree, actually. I think big tech would be wise to put its money where its mouth is or face a public revolt.

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#228

Post by SilasX » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

GVIrish wrote: post #134

wrsh07 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither side here looks great. It's reasonable for someone to sue Gawker because of what they publish. It's a bit scary to have someone attempt to take down a publishing company just because of a long-held grudge. That's a template for private censorship by the rich.

To me it would only be scary if a media company was taken down by a rich entity simply litigating them until they couldn't afford to fight the lawsuits anymore. In this case, Gawker lost because they were in the wrong. A media company operating with integrity has nothing to fear here.

Do they? Even if Gawker was in the wrong here, is publishing someone's private sex tape $140 million worth of wrong? What about all the other tabloids that have done something similar?

It's exactly this kind of "jackpot justice" that illustrates how bad the system is, that everyone is one sympathetic jury away from being shut down.

I can't upvote csallen's comment enough: the cost of being wrong is far too capricious. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11824026

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#229

Post by dpark » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:10 PM UTC

ctulek wrote: post #223

dpark wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Thiel didn't have a history with Gawker, I would believe to this nobel cause. Thiel's history with Gawker is irrelevant to whether the cause is noble. If the cause is noble, it's noble regardless of who is funding it and why. If funding cancer research is noble, it is still noble even if you became interested because you had cancer.

I didn't discuss whether the cause is noble or not. I discussed whether what Peter Thiel is doing noble or not. I don't find his action noble. In other words, that someone supports a noble cause does not make them noble, one should also check their intentions.

You literally said "noble cause" (well, "nobel cause").

Re: Thiel shows why tech billionaires are the new robber barons

#230

Post by lhnz » Thu, Jun 02, 2016, 5:11 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #126

bko wrote: post #17

> Litigation finance is typically a business venture. It doesn’t become charity because a wealthy person uses it as a template for a personal crusade and then insists he’s doing everyone else a favor. Why? Many cases brought by individuals or groups on moral grounds have led the way to better governance. A lot of good work has been done by groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Why should individuals or g…

There is a difference between winning a lawsuit to right a wrong and then to go further and actually try to take down a paper. Whatever Gawker did to Theil it's not worth doing what he is doing but thats up to him. The problem though is that as extreme wealth gets put into fewer hands it allow them to basically bleed anything skeptical to this out. Furthermore and as a sidenote. I find it ironic that Theil of all peo…

He's a smart man, so it is quite possible he has some nuanced opinion that is not exactly cookie-cutter libertarian from a textbook.

And this should be allowed. Siding a certain way on some political issues shouldn't require you to be absolutely dogmatic to all of the relating principles and perspectives in all contexts.

I mean, I wouldn't expect this from myself, so I wouldn't expect it from others.