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Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

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Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#31

Post by wahsd »

It kind of rubs me wrong that Uber is defended with such vigor in so many different ways and situations. It's really a rather vile company started by rather vile people who now went begging to the muslims and their oil money just to keep it afloat.

Uber is kind of like a classic latin american revolutionary guerrilla force in both their claimed cause, yet ever increasingly frequent diversion from its ostensible values while still enjoying a rather fervent support by fanatics who project externalities onto the group and who's capacity for ignorance and rationalization seems to flow from an endless well.

I can assure you, as alluring as it seems due to Uber's brazen expressions, Uber is the last company you want dominating the consolidated means of transportation that will come from an autonomous vehicle evolution. They have no morals and zero concern with the impact of their actions or policies and they will not give any more concerns towards the millions of Uber drivers they currently are exploiting any more than they had zero concern for the Taxi drivers they were screwing and doing so by breaking laws.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#32

Post by tyingq »

Bartweiss wrote: post #29

> She drives about 25 hours a week. In one week in May, she earned $604 for 28 hours of work, she said — a slightly better-than-average week. Uber took $160 for the car directly out of her paycheck, leaving her with $444. So, for 28 hours of work, the driver got a car (with maintenance covered) and a ~$16/hour salary on top. Without the car payment, it's a $21/hour salary. That's apparently a near-average week. I see…

I agree with most of this, but it should be noted that $16/hour as 1099 income is not at all the same thing as $16/hour as a regular W2 employee. A rough equivalent would be about $11/hour. I think that's high still, as there are costs other than maintenance...like gasoline.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#33

Post by Someone1234 »

Bartweiss wrote: post #29

> She drives about 25 hours a week. In one week in May, she earned $604 for 28 hours of work, she said — a slightly better-than-average week. Uber took $160 for the car directly out of her paycheck, leaving her with $444. So, for 28 hours of work, the driver got a car (with maintenance covered) and a ~$16/hour salary on top. Without the car payment, it's a $21/hour salary. That's apparently a near-average week. I see…

How did you get $16/hour? How much is gas in that calculation?

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#34

Post by xemdetia »

bko wrote: post #26

Subprime lending == bad Extending credit to lower-income borrowers == good Are we just talking about price (interest) here? You may not like the price, but prices exist for a reason and cannot be changed by diktat. Who gets prime vs a subprime lease isn't determined by some ethnicity or the religious sect someone belongs in. It's determined by the risk and size of the loan. Smaller loans have relatively higher fixed…

> So basically she got a loan at 10%. Also, you have to factor in that she has an option to purchase which she can choose to exercise. I don't know why they don't just say as much.

That's the weirdest part of me. People who drive for a living can and will put on 30k+ miles a year on a car. If they used this car for Uber work for the full three years as a driver, you probably wouldn't want the car anyway! It would make more sense to lease a new one to continue working for Uber or if you move on from Uber trigger the two week end lease policy and buy a new car. Or trigger the two week end policy and move into a car you financed under your own power.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#36

Post by MisterBastahrd »

wjnc wrote: post #10

"“I’d say the cost is greater than the benefit for your average driver,” - Isn't that the point of this scheme, that they target non-average drivers, ie those with low credit scores that would be unable to drive otherwise. With regards to the figures at the end of the article. If Uber pays for insurance and repairs, it seems not a too prohibitive deal. If not the interest rates are well above 20%. Seems pretty sweet…

You can do almost anything else at a W-2 job and make more money with less responsibility and risk. Your credit card rate comparison is absurd. You don't ever have to carry a balance with a credit card. You have no choice with a car.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#37

Post by warfangle »

tyingq wrote: post #32
Bartweiss wrote: post #29

> She drives about 25 hours a week. In one week in May, she earned $604 for 28 hours of work, she said — a slightly better-than-average week. Uber took $160 for the car directly out of her paycheck, leaving her with $444. So, for 28 hours of work, the driver got a car (with maintenance covered) and a ~$16/hour salary on top. Without the car payment, it's a $21/hour salary. That's apparently a near-average week. I see…

I agree with most of this, but it should be noted that $16/hour as 1099 income is not at all the same thing as $16/hour as a regular W2 employee. A rough equivalent would be about $11/hour. I think that's high still, as there are costs other than maintenance...like gasoline.

Average city driving speed for LA is 26.8 MPH [0], which means she's driving around 750 miles per week.

She leased a 2015 Honda Civic, which has a rated fuel economy of 31 MPG.

Assuming she gets the rated gas mileage from her civic, she's buying 24 gallons of gasoline per week for 2.39 [1] per, costing her $57.

AAA gives an estimated 5.51 cents per mile for maintenance and tires [2], costing her $41.

So, take home pay after expenses is $604 - $160 - $57 - $41 = $346, or $12.3/hr.

IANAA, so I don't know which of these expenses qualify for deductions when she files. But an annual pay (after expenses) of $17,992 doesn't leave much wiggle room for paying for an accountant, assuming Uber indentured servitude is her only income generating activity.

0. http://infinitemonkeycorps.net/projects/cityspeed/

1. http://www.losangelesgasprices.com/

2. http://exchange.aaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/2016-YDC-...

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#38

Post by Bartweiss »

warfangle wrote: post #37
tyingq wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of this, but it should be noted that $16/hour as 1099 income is not at all the same thing as $16/hour as a regular W2 employee. A rough equivalent would be about $11/hour. I think that's high still, as there are costs other than maintenance...like gasoline.

Average city driving speed for LA is 26.8 MPH [0], which means she's driving around 750 miles per week. She leased a 2015 Honda Civic, which has a rated fuel economy of 31 MPG. Assuming she gets the rated gas mileage from her civic, she's buying 24 gallons of gasoline per week for 2.39 [1] per, costing her $57. AAA gives an estimated 5.51 cents per mile for maintenance and tires [2], costing her $41. So, take home pa…

This is mostly a good assessment, but the maintenance cost should be reduced - one part of Uber's lending program is covered routine maintenance. Gas at least should be deductible, I don't know whether the car payments can be counted in whole or in part.

The overall point is well taken, though. There are several hits to real income for Uber drivers that aren't shared by other types of low-wage worker, and while "set your own hours" offers more upside than a normal part-time job, it's limited by how many high-demand hours there are in a week. Rather than extra overtime pay, I imagine hours past her current 28 would give steadily diminishing returns.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#39

Post by aoeuasdf1 »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #36
wjnc wrote: post #10

"“I’d say the cost is greater than the benefit for your average driver,” - Isn't that the point of this scheme, that they target non-average drivers, ie those with low credit scores that would be unable to drive otherwise. With regards to the figures at the end of the article. If Uber pays for insurance and repairs, it seems not a too prohibitive deal. If not the interest rates are well above 20%. Seems pretty sweet…

You can do almost anything else at a W-2 job and make more money with less responsibility and risk. Your credit card rate comparison is absurd. You don't ever have to carry a balance with a credit card. You have no choice with a car.

W2 jobs are not comparable. Driving for uber is flexible - you can drive whenever you want, for however long you want each week. Obviously that value will come at a lower price point for wages.

Re: Uber’s subprime leases put drivers on road, but leave some shackled

#40

Post by Bartweiss »

Someone1234 wrote: post #33
Bartweiss wrote: post #29

> She drives about 25 hours a week. In one week in May, she earned $604 for 28 hours of work, she said — a slightly better-than-average week. Uber took $160 for the car directly out of her paycheck, leaving her with $444. So, for 28 hours of work, the driver got a car (with maintenance covered) and a ~$16/hour salary on top. Without the car payment, it's a $21/hour salary. That's apparently a near-average week. I see…

How did you get $16/hour? How much is gas in that calculation?

No gas, it's just hourly after the car lease. Another commenter arrives at ~$12/hour after expenses, but depending on how good the routine maintenance coverage Uber offers is something like $13-14/hour looks about right (pending assorted tax complexities).
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