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Amphetamine use in America's workforce

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Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#181

Post by idra »

tlrobinson wrote: post #179
taxicabjesus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a specific source, it's just the impression that I get from having talked to a few people who had trouble with meth amphetamine. One friend's husband brought cocaine home. That was nice, but it got expensive, so they switched to Meth. After a while she realized she didn't like what it was doing to her personality, so she quit. Then the anxiety started. Xanax helped her not care, then she discovered Alcoh…

Are you really comparing meth to ADHD drugs?

Well, if the ADHD drug in question is Adderall, which is an amphetamine, the mechanism of action and effects are largely similar. And Desoxyne IS meth. Methamphetamine actually metabolizes into amphetamine in the body.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#182

Post by Dr_tldr »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #164
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually. I've not heard this before..do you have a source? Quite interested.

I don't have a specific source, it's just the impression that I get from having talked to a few people who had trouble with meth amphetamine. One friend's husband brought cocaine home. That was nice, but it got expensive, so they switched to Meth. After a while she realized she didn't like what it was doing to her personality, so she quit. Then the anxiety started. Xanax helped her not care, then she discovered Alcoh…

Oh good, an anecdote. Those are always indicative of larger data sets, and definitely not meaningless and heavily biased.

It's pretty irrating to support stigmatizing/banning a drug that millions of people use and get therapeutic effects from based on a few unrelated anecdotes.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#183

Post by taxicabjesus »

Dr_tldr wrote: post #182
taxicabjesus wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a specific source, it's just the impression that I get from having talked to a few people who had trouble with meth amphetamine. One friend's husband brought cocaine home. That was nice, but it got expensive, so they switched to Meth. After a while she realized she didn't like what it was doing to her personality, so she quit. Then the anxiety started. Xanax helped her not care, then she discovered Alcoh…

Oh good, an anecdote. Those are always indicative of larger data sets, and definitely not meaningless and heavily biased. It's pretty irrating to support stigmatizing/banning a drug that millions of people use and get therapeutic effects from based on a few unrelated anecdotes.

true to form, user "too long didn't read" didn't read the links.

My position is simply that there is underlying causes behind people's complaints. Stimulant-prescribing doctors would rather suppress the symptom than investigate.

Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an Epidemic discusses amphetamines on pages 64, 219, 228-29,236, "See also Benzedrine; Ritalin". Ritalin is covered in more depth: case studies, as cause of juvenile bipolar disorder, hiding the evidence, risks/side-effects, and silencing dissent.

More information about this book can be found through the Mad In America link above; I directly linked to its information page in another comment.

People tend to like the stimulants. They tend to hate the sedatives. Some stimulant users end up being forcibly sedated with "anti-psychotics" (courtesy of a court-order), because they couldn't keep their stimulant use under control and became psychotic.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#184

Post by ramblerman »

Vraxx wrote: post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different.

To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down.

1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage

2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not years). Regardless of your neurological makeup, just the stress on your heart seems insane

Would love to hear alternative opinions, mainly I'm skeptical it's effect is that different for ADHD sufferers and non afflicted people. I mean we all have issues concentrating and it's probably more of a sliding scale across the population.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#185

Post by kome »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #90
kome wrote: post #21

International comparisons would really help a lot to understand the phenomena... I find that there is a tendency by many North Americans to find pseudo-biological justification about everything. In other words: trying to find individual solutions ("my dopamine is so messed up!") to social problems.

The largest users of anti-depressants are socialist style nations like Iceland, Australia, and Portugal. These countries are run almost the opposite of the US. So there's more than the usual liberal criticisms of how the US is too competitive/not competitive enough or has too easy access to drugs/not enough or whatever applies here. >North Americans to find pseudo-biological justification about everything. Yet the ab…

Regarding the use antidepressants, the USA beats everybody, according to OECD data: http://static5.techinsider.io/image/56b363792e526551008b4c1d...

Also: Iceland, Australia, and Portugal cannot be called socialist by any stretch of the imagination.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#186

Post by [deleted] »

jolux wrote: post #130
andyjdavis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>SSRIs, for example, take weeks to have an effect. I am not sure that the time it takes to have an effect is a good metric for whether or not something has potential for abuse. Sure SSRIs take a few weeks to have a noticeably effect but they also takes weeks to tail off. The area under the curve is not necessarily different.

Yeah but you can't pop a Prozac if you're feeling sad and expect to feel better within a reasonable time frame. There's also no high, you just start feeling normal again if you're depressed and it's the right drug. https://www.quora.com/Why-are-SSRIs-typically-prescribed-bef... "This last item makes SSRI's abuse-safe: contrary to benzodiazepines or opiate-based painkillers, there's no risk of abusing them for pleasur…

[deleted]

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#187

Post by teslabox »

reitanqild wrote: post #172
taxicabjesus wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is a diagnosed medical disorder that affects millions of people in America. Why do we still stigmatize it in the modern age? ADHD is a meaningless psychiatric diagnostic [1] of symptoms, not cause. The diagnosis is used to put millions of people in America on maintenance doses of addictive psychotropic drugs. Routine use of amphetamines almost always causes people's mental conditions to worsen, eventually. Ton…

Did you ever stop to think if possibly it could have been worse without R or whatever? Oh, most likely not R, because it doesn't cause addiction if taken according to prescription.

I wonder how humanity ever got anything done, before we had stimulants to treat our ADHD.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#188

Post by InclinedPlane »

ramblerman wrote: post #184
Vraxx wrote: post #9

I think this is a little bit sensationalized at the very least. This excerpt in particular caught me off guard. "Abuse by young professionals is distressingly common—Wall Street traders, software engineers, dentists, nurses, and lawyers, all cracked out of their minds trying to keep up with the competition." Yes, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and yes I have an Adderall prescription. But I'd hardly call myself…

As someone who has taken various recreational and over the counter drugs I question that sentiment. Having a prescription doesn't make adderall magically different. To me it's very much like speed or cocaine, just longer lasting and more consistent with less of a let down. 1) any child who takes it certainly has an advantage 2) I couldn't fathom taking something that strong every single day for months on end (if not…

"Regardless of your neurological makeup"

This is where you go off the rails. Neurology makes a huge difference in the effect of many drugs, and there has been a tremendous amount of research backing that up. Just because you personally can't believe it doesn't mean it's not true.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#189

Post by rtpg »

Lewton wrote: post #46
ta_339393 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a myth, the effects are the same regardless of whether or not you have ADHD otherwise we'd be able to test for ADHD by simply giving someone amphetamines and seeing how they respond. Almost anyone who takes low-dose amphetamines will experience enhanced cognition. It just happens that this enhancement also alleviates symptoms of ADHD. As you pointed out the problem with the article is that it makes no distinc…

I thought giving people adhd meds and seeing whether it relaxes them was a pretty good (not perfect) indicator? Am I wrong?

I don't think this works as well for adults. People with ADHD tend to calm down as they become adults (because of the whole "becoming an adult" thing), so the environment changes.

EDIT: calm down wrt physical movement, symptoms on the cognitive side are still very present of course. It's just that adults tend to be better equipped to cope with some of them.

Re: Amphetamine use in America's workforce

#190

Post by rtpg »

kome wrote: post #21

International comparisons would really help a lot to understand the phenomena... I find that there is a tendency by many North Americans to find pseudo-biological justification about everything. In other words: trying to find individual solutions ("my dopamine is so messed up!") to social problems.

This is such a harmful comment, and perpetuates lies about the state of understanding of ADHD.

ADHD is basically the most studied and best understood psychological condition out there. People who get treatment (medical treatment! Treatment without medication is a major uphill battle) have a 60+% response rate, with something like 30% of people having almost total recovery of symptoms.

This is much better than "real" conditions like bipolar disorders and "well most people think it's real" things like depression. If you think we can diagnose and treat bipolar, then acknowledging ADHD as a real thing that does affect a lot of people is the next logical step.

A bit of a rant but I think a lot society is still in denial about ADHD mainly because the symptoms look a lot like behaviour we expect from children.

And of course that denial makes ADHD sufferers feel like shit and shuts down most paths for recourse...

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