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How Much Housing Will Be Built?

ternercenter2.berkeley.edu

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Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#101
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just start charging for curbside parking, and remove mandatory minimum parking requirements for buildings. People are still free to build parking places (and even charge for them). The hope is that by ending the parking subsidy for car owners, they choices will be informed by something closer to their full economic impact. (The cost can even be borne by the same people---ie currently a car owner might as well be…

>they choices will be informed by something closer to their full economic impact. There's no need for weasel words. We want fewer cars and less driving, so we use policy to make it less pleasant to own and drive a car. Okay, fine. But what are you replacing it with? Because making driving hurt more is a net loss to subjective well-being unless you're prepared to replace it with something better (i.e. a few billion do…

Oh, we don't impose any new costs here. We'd just stop sharing the cost of car ownership like some dirty communists.

People can still do the same amount of car driving and parking as before---and on average [#] the same amount of income will go to parking as before. Only now the cost will be directly visible, as opposed to hidden in other prices.

But of course, decisions on the margin will change. Someone might want to move closer to work, or decide to carshare, or take a job closer to home. (All these options cost money or are inconvenient. But they can save the person in question money otherwise spent for parking. Different trade-offs are viable than before.)

Yes, investing a few billion dollars in rail might make sense. But you don't have to invest in rail before you start de-socialising the price of parking.

This is somewhat covered in the pdf I linked.

[#] On average means: the total amount of resources society as a whole spends on parking won't change. The population won't change. Since the average is just total divided by the population, it will stay constant.

This is somewhat different to eg proposing an extra tax on parking or petrol. And definitely different to eg the price of oil rising on the world market.

Of course, even if the average stays constant, the burden on individuals will change. Eg people too poor to own a car will benefit from other goods and services becoming cheaper, but won't be hit by the de-socialising of parking.

And of course, we want people to `game the tax' by changing their behaviour. Ie encourage stuff like the Google bus for employees even more.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#102
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dangerous problem is that it isn't the government who subsidizes rents, it's everyone else. If the subsidy were visible (the government writing a check to landlords) people would raise hell. Instead it's a hidden subsidy. The housing costs and rents of everyone goes up (including low-income income people) except for the lucky few who win the subsidized housing lottery. The intent of low income housing is laudable…

Same for cars, and their parking. The government forces everyone to write cheques to car owners. (Even the car owners themselves, of course. It's a tragedy of the commons; like eg communal charging for electricity in a whole city.) http://www.uctc.net/research/papers/351.pdf

It's not tragedy of the commons, it's path dependence. If you don't have excellent mass transit then you need parking, so you build parking. Then if you have parking everybody drives and nobody is willing to invest in mass transit, so you continue to need parking.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#103
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for cars, and their parking. The government forces everyone to write cheques to car owners. (Even the car owners themselves, of course. It's a tragedy of the commons; like eg communal charging for electricity in a whole city.) http://www.uctc.net/research/papers/351.pdf

It's not tragedy of the commons, it's path dependence. If you don't have excellent mass transit then you need parking, so you build parking. Then if you have parking everybody drives and nobody is willing to invest in mass transit, so you continue to need parking.

I agree.

Now, we mostly see the demand for parking at zero [#] marginal cost to the parker, not the demand for parking at its true cost---because the costs are shared by society.

The short term demand for parking is relatively inelastic---so right after introducing pervasive charging for curbside parking and dropping minimum parking requirements for new developments, we will see roughly the same number of cars parked. (That's where your dependency comes in.)

In the longer term, demand for parking is more elastic. (One can see a similar relationship between oil price and demand for gas guzzling cars: inelastic / path dependent in the short run. More elastic with enough time.)

This holds even without public transport at all. Public transport is just one of the things that can serve as an (imperfect) substitute for private car rides. There are other ones, like car sharing, choosing job/home combinations that are closer to each other, telecommuting, home delivery of groceries, buying groceries in bulk, etc.

(To take one example right now, people already prefer to work closer to home, and make trade-offs all the time when considering a home or a job. The point of indifference between eg home price/salary and commute length will shift. Full disclosure: I hate commuting myself and have decided to fork out the money to live very close to the office.)

All the people in the market are probably much cleverer than me in coming up with substitutes. The price mechanism can guide them.

Some of these substitutes can and are provided by the private market. Public transport is generally not. Though eg Britain has privatised train companies.

Add in as another complication that without careful regulation, lots of public transport options are natural monopolies. One attempt to blunt this effect is by careful separation: eg run the rail network as a heavily regulated, public utility and make private companies bid for the right to run trains on it and for slots at the stations etc. And be very careful to specify that apart from meeting some minimum standards, the height of the bid alone determines the winner of the auction---politicians like beauty contests, because it gives them power to meddle.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisation_of_British_Rail for some lessons. Germany faces similar problems in eg their electrical power market.

Since I'm already on a tangent: the American freight train market and its history are another interesting piece to learn from. (It's doing pretty well, mostly because they don't have many passenger trains clogging up the network like in Europe, and the new regulatory environment of the Staggers Rail Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staggers_Rail_Act) seems to have worked out reasonably well. (They called it `deregulation', but that almost never happens---it's just a different form of regulation.)

[#] Zero in terms of dollars plus the effort and hassle of congestion and cruising for parking.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#104
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated: Why is the wages coefficient negative and large in your regression?

I think you're reading it backwards. The coefficients are the exponents that follow the parameters. The large negative one is the housing supply, because prices go down as more housing exists.

[deleted]

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#105
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated: Why is the wages coefficient negative and large in your regression?

I think you're reading it backwards. The coefficients are the exponents that follow the parameters. The large negative one is the housing supply, because prices go down as more housing exists.

Thanks

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#106
post #21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to buy-to-leave is surely extremely high taxation on properties left empty (and I'm talking "10% of market value" levels of taxation, enough to obliterate any possible returns on investment).

That would be either unreasonably punitive or easy to avoid. Properties needing renovation or structural work can't reasonably be penalised for not being occupied, so owners would simply arrange for unoccupied buildings to be permanently having work done on them. I'm sure there are plenty of builders that would help them out for moderate fees. I'm sure there are other ways round something like this too.

> That would be either unreasonably punitive [...]

If it was levied on the value of the land alone, there's no such thing as unreasonably punitive: land values would just drop until the tax is priced in.

If you look purely at economic efficiency, and leave out any morals about _who_ should be taxed, the only thing keeping taxes from going up all the way to taking everything is economic inefficiency. Ie if you heavily tax a particular widget, people will produce fewer widgets.

Land is fixed. You can't produce it, thus no tax can interfere with its supply. (Unless it's a tax system that incentives you to keep your land off the market, like negative gearing in Australia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_gearing).)

However, if the tax was levied on the value of land plus building on it, a high tax would discourage building houses---whose supply is emphatically not fixed.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#107
post #63
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government price controls do not fundamentally change the cost only the price. If the government is so efficient and can, somehow, make housing cheaper than it would be in a free market why shouldn't they also take control of the food supply? Computers? Software? All industry?

This is going off into the weeds, but the government can and does provide food assistance : food stamps. Still, though, people use those to purchase food at market prices, which makes sense.

As a Central European, I have always been bewildered by American food stamps.

But I guess it's because of different attitudes in these two parts of the world? American don't trust poor people with money?

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#108
post #107
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going off into the weeds, but the government can and does provide food assistance : food stamps. Still, though, people use those to purchase food at market prices, which makes sense.

As a Central European, I have always been bewildered by American food stamps. But I guess it's because of different attitudes in these two parts of the world? American don't trust poor people with money?

Facts don't trust poor people with 'free' money.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#109
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really seeing why I should be sympathetic to those trying to go in and drive out the people already there.

Imagine two extremes, as an illustration: 1. In one city, incumbents rule. Their property values rise to a level that keeps everyone else out. They make all the rules. They were there first and they win. It's theirs and outsiders should respect that. 2. The second city is open to anyone, always changing. Incumbents cannot expect gains by virtue of having been first. Everyone there has the same expectation of benefiti…

Again, at the same time, why should I cheer for people who are coming in, forcing out people who have lived there for their entire lives, simply because they have more money? That sounds like straight up bullying to me.

Re: How Much Housing Will Be Built?

#110
post #82
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because of that, people who were already living there should have to move away?

If they bought in, they don't have to. If they had got their act together 20... 40 years ago and got rid of some of the NIMBY stuff causing so many problems there, that would have helped too. If there were enough housing, no one would "have to" move away. But no, in most western countries, there is no right to live in a city just because you currently happen to live there. If you want to live in an inclusive place wi…

There's no right for anyone to live in any city. So why should I be cheering for a bunch of rich people coming in and forcing out people who have been living there for most of their lives?
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