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‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

bloomberg.com

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Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#31

Post by JohnTHaller »

ljf wrote: post #24
clamprecht wrote: post #19

> "It's pretty much a fight between David and Goliath", [the prosecutor] said. Really? France, a sovereign G8 nation, calling Google Goliath? How are they measuring size? Google's market capitalization is $500 billion, is this more valuable than the country of France?

Do you think the French Tax office has 500 billion in resources? Or 5? Likely to have a relatively tiny budget and teams compared to even just the legal teams at Google.

Do you think Google's French office has 500 billion in resources? You can't compare the worth/resources of the entire company of Google worldwide to a branch of the French government. You either compare the local Google office to the French tax office or the country of France to the worldwide company of Google. Otherwise it's just designed to be deceitful.

Additionally, Google doesn't get to show up with armed men and take things out of the offices of the French government.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#32

Post by PeCaN »

Scoundreller wrote: post #25
ironsides wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running uBlock Origin and still getting the notification about adblocker. They seem to be running some sort of detection mechanism. I was running standard uBlock and didn't realize it. Origin seems to bypass the detection.

Hrmmmm, running uBlock Origin 1.7.2, and got hit by it.

Go to µBlock Origin settings, 3rd-Party Filters, check "Adblock Warning Removal List" and "Anti-Adblock Killer | Reek‎".

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#33

Post by abiox »

ohyes wrote: post #30
yummyfajitas wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Google has the ability to send armed men to engage in violence against the French tax office?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_militar... Technically, yes they could. And if the private sector really is more efficient, they shouldn't need the whole 50 billion. I guess what I'm saying is it would be an interesting novel that I hope never happens in real life.

this seems nonsequitur. i doubt they were suggesting that google was literally incapable of hiring mercenaries or whatever.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#34

Post by kbenson »

Not to hijack the conversation, but I find it interesting that bloomberg almost has a good strategy for popup blocking people.

They present a dialog that says "We noticed that you're using an ad blocker, which may adversely affect the performance and content on Bloomberg.com. For the best experience, please whitelist the site." and a few second countdown before it goes away.

So, since they asked nicely, and it is their content, I turned off ublock for them, and reloaded. The page loads with the content aligned to the top, then a second later the content jumps down 200-300 pixels for a second leaving a white border at the top, then a second after that it jumps up half the size of the prior white border, because the ad that loaded is too small for the allotted area.

Congratulations on reinforcing the idea that all site advertising is bad. ublock has been restored on my end, and you've already exhausted the good will I was extending towards you with that move.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#35

Post by dogma1138 »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #31
ljf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the French Tax office has 500 billion in resources? Or 5? Likely to have a relatively tiny budget and teams compared to even just the legal teams at Google.

Do you think Google's French office has 500 billion in resources? You can't compare the worth/resources of the entire company of Google worldwide to a branch of the French government. You either compare the local Google office to the French tax office or the country of France to the worldwide company of Google. Otherwise it's just designed to be deceitful. Additionally, Google doesn't get to show up with armed men an…

Google can't fine anyone, they can't deport and they can't put you in jail - a government can.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#36

Post by dogma1138 »

morgante wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's going to take an enormous amount of time and staffing costs. Is it? Can't they scan all of those docs in, OCR them (or process the electronic docs if they're already in that format), and use e-discovery? I hear so often on HN that legal firms no longer need junior associates or paralegals for that work, as the software can do the heavy lifting.

Yes, software can make discovery a lot more efficient. Apparently they're not willing to pay for it. > Investigators have “limited” technological means and would need “extremely efficient software” worth about 200,000 euros to speed up their work.

Would be funny if they'll use Google's software in the future to parse the legal documents that were confiscated in the raid.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#37

Post by dogma1138 »

c-slice wrote: post #21
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's going to take an enormous amount of time and staffing costs. Is it? Can't they scan all of those docs in, OCR them (or process the electronic docs if they're already in that format), and use e-discovery? I hear so often on HN that legal firms no longer need junior associates or paralegals for that work, as the software can do the heavy lifting.

I think automated discovery software for tax law is still probably very limited in capability.

I've seen some forensic accounting software that is quite good at uncovering illicit transactions, however in this case they need to prove that Google didn't violate the law but intentionally abuse it so I don't know what they'll even be looking for.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#38

Post by kbenson »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #7
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's going to take an enormous amount of time and staffing costs. Is it? Can't they scan all of those docs in, OCR them (or process the electronic docs if they're already in that format), and use e-discovery? I hear so often on HN that legal firms no longer need junior associates or paralegals for that work, as the software can do the heavy lifting.

My wife is in law school. The work software can do is still severely limited. I personally think we are on the cusp of a revolution in this, but we aren't there yet. Watson could probably do it, if it were as important as doctoring. Software has made major strides. The old way of sending multiple copies between sides to be hand redone for each change required stupid amounts of labor. Now we have Word. But understandi…

> Watson could probably do it, if it were as important as doctoring.

I initially read that with the alternative meaning of doctoring, which is is a rather amusing take on it.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#39

Post by waterphone »

kbenson wrote: post #34

Not to hijack the conversation, but I find it interesting that bloomberg almost has a good strategy for popup blocking people. They present a dialog that says "We noticed that you're using an ad blocker, which may adversely affect the performance and content on Bloomberg.com. For the best experience, please whitelist the site." and a few second countdown before it goes away. So, since they asked nicely, and it is the…

It is their content, but it's your computer, and you get to choose what code runs on your computer. And adblockers aren't just blocking ads, they're blocking tracking scripts and malware and dozens or more performance-reducing requests per page.

I will never disable adblock for any site. If the site blocks me for blocking adblock, I will block their adblock blocker, or block the site entirely so I never mistakenly visit it again.

Re: ‘Operation Tulip’ Takes Prosecutors Offline for Google Tax Raid

#40

Post by calbear81 »

morgante wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's going to take an enormous amount of time and staffing costs. Is it? Can't they scan all of those docs in, OCR them (or process the electronic docs if they're already in that format), and use e-discovery? I hear so often on HN that legal firms no longer need junior associates or paralegals for that work, as the software can do the heavy lifting.

Yes, software can make discovery a lot more efficient. Apparently they're not willing to pay for it. > Investigators have “limited” technological means and would need “extremely efficient software” worth about 200,000 euros to speed up their work.

Isn't this an opportunity for a technologically savvy law firm to help the tax office take on the hard work in return for a % of the settlement? We pay whistleblowers rewards for ratting out tax evaders, why wouldn't we pay for expertise if it means increasing the chances of winning. 50% is better than 0% if it means giving them a fighting chance.
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