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Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

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Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#41

Post by edoceo »

skeeper wrote: post #13
edoceo wrote: post #12

The alternative already exists, why isn't it being used?

Can you tell which alternatives? They are either similar or inferior to Upwork, or are still new and relatively unknown (and therefore there are not much jobs in their platform). It's a huge dilemma.

Here is the newest one:

  http://bitkick.org/
My partner and I just kicked this off. We've got 6mo of runway and must acquire 100k freelancers in that time. Its chicken & egg, of course, we've decided to start on the talent side.

We are also looking for freelancers to participate in market research interviews to help guide our build out.

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#42

Post by skeeper »

sanderjd wrote: post #30
mooreds wrote: post #29

Maybe something like a REI or Vanguard model would work, where the company providing the service is a cooperative owned by the members?

This is such a good idea that I'm surprised I haven't seen this model yet.

Maybe because it's easier to launch something that is motivated by profit (for a few people) than anything else?

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#43

Post by mooreds »

ccozan wrote: post #33
mooreds wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have your hands in the transaction, then you'll be cut out if the transaction as soon as both parties are comfortable with each other. That may be ok, but is definitely far less sustainable, as you have to keep creating new matches (as opposed to being paid for an existing match continuing).

You are right, but the same can be done over current Upwork; once I trust a freelancer, I can deal outside the Upwork range, using a normal contract. However, the most freelancers get short jobs and many clients, as in the original article is specified, so this just simply works. EDIT: it seems that as currently implemented, even Upwork is bumping in a search the ones with many hours/money earned. So cheating would b…

> So cheating would be a bad decision, since it may drastically affect your visibility on the site.

And may be one of the primary reasons for this "feature". I don't blame them, they are a marketplace and should encourage transactions on their platform.

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#44

Post by mooreds »

An aside.

Anyone who is interested in marketplaces, whether their implementation, management, or value, should read "The Middle Man Economy" by Marina Krakovsky: http://marinakrakovsky.com/books/

This book was very helpful to me in understanding concretely how marketplaces and middlemen can actually have real tangible benefits (though, working for a marketplace startup now, and having worked for a real estate brokerage in the past, I have more than a passing familiarity with the value propositions of several types of middlemen).

Alternatively, here's a podcast with the author: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2016/03/marina_krakovsk.htm...

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#45

Post by mooreds »

skeeper wrote: post #37
nfriedly wrote: post #35

Back when it was called elance, I was getting annoyed that it would bill clients automatically but then leave the money sit in my elance account - there was no way to automatically send income to a bank account. So I wrote a bot that logged in on my behalf every day and initiated a bank transfer if there was any money available. I don't believe this violated the ToS at the time, and Elance never said there was anythi…

They seem to be getting some profit by keeping YOUR money on their accounts.

It's called "float"--all kinds of companies use it. More here: http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/insurance/2006/12/05/in...

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#46

Post by imglorp »

PeterisP wrote: post #14
ccozan wrote: post #10

There is not necessarily a need for 100% community effort. What is needed a simple, decent service, with reasonable rates ( from 1% to 3% from a transaction ) and keeps up with the requests. Such a service could be run by a max 5 person company and I believe everyone could profit. I worked with Upwork and I liked the concept, but the implementation was a bit to complicated. With this changes, I really hope new such s…

1% to 3% won't even cover the direct costs of being an intermediary for payments if you e.g. accept credit cards. Such levels of pricing is not sustainable unless you're burning money to provide the service at a loss while you gain market share and network effects. I agree that 20% fee seems excessive, but as soon as you're handling other people's money, 1-3% are not reasonable rates, they are unrealistically low, no…

Bitcoin has several solutions here. First of all the transaction fee is small, around $.05 at the moment[1]. Second, there are contracts and escrows[2,3] which would support remote work by strangers.

1. https://bitcoinfees.21.co/

2. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Escrow_Service

3. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contract

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#47

Post by skeeper »

mooreds wrote: post #44

An aside. Anyone who is interested in marketplaces, whether their implementation, management, or value, should read "The Middle Man Economy" by Marina Krakovsky: http://marinakrakovsky.com/books/ This book was very helpful to me in understanding concretely how marketplaces and middlemen can actually have real tangible benefits (though, working for a marketplace startup now, and having worked for a real estate brokera…

Could you share the name of your marketplace startup? Is it purpose driven?

Thanks for sharing those links

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#48

Post by skeeper »

imglorp wrote: post #46
PeterisP wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% to 3% won't even cover the direct costs of being an intermediary for payments if you e.g. accept credit cards. Such levels of pricing is not sustainable unless you're burning money to provide the service at a loss while you gain market share and network effects. I agree that 20% fee seems excessive, but as soon as you're handling other people's money, 1-3% are not reasonable rates, they are unrealistically low, no…

Bitcoin has several solutions here. First of all the transaction fee is small, around $.05 at the moment[1]. Second, there are contracts and escrows[2,3] which would support remote work by strangers. 1. https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ 2. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Escrow_Service 3. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contract

Bitcoin is still a relatively new concept with limited implementation and infrastructure throughout the world. But it is certainly promising.

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#49

Post by skeeper »

mooreds wrote: post #43
ccozan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, but the same can be done over current Upwork; once I trust a freelancer, I can deal outside the Upwork range, using a normal contract. However, the most freelancers get short jobs and many clients, as in the original article is specified, so this just simply works. EDIT: it seems that as currently implemented, even Upwork is bumping in a search the ones with many hours/money earned. So cheating would b…

> So cheating would be a bad decision, since it may drastically affect your visibility on the site. And may be one of the primary reasons for this "feature". I don't blame them, they are a marketplace and should encourage transactions on their platform.

Encouraging transactions on their platform benefits the people too, since the platform offers some degree of protection to them.

Re: Upwork is Changing Again and What We Can Do About It

#50

Post by skeeper »

mooreds wrote: post #45
skeeper wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to be getting some profit by keeping YOUR money on their accounts.

It's called "float"--all kinds of companies use it. More here: http://www.fool.com/personal-finance/insurance/2006/12/05/in...

Thanks. I learned another cool jargon. Whatever "floats" their boat, I guess!
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