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World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

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101–110 of 170 posts

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#101
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how much time approximately will be saved vs the existing routes?

It cuts the Zürich-Milan journey time for passenger trains by about an hour (from 173 to 111 minutes) accelerating train trips from Germany/Switzerland to Italy significantly.

But the real goal is to get trucks off their roads. Hopefully this happens.

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#102
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a bit on wikipedia[1] (more in the german version). The project wasn't with out Problems but because of such strict planning they could be solved. For example one of the TBM's got stuck for months, another issues such as sub contractors delivering fraudulent materials also had to be dealt with. [2] Although the Swiss part went well there are issues with the connection in Germany and Italy. Some projects in I…

I don't read German so maybe this is covered in your article but what does strict planning have to do with getting a TBM unstuck or fraudulent materials? Wouldn't these issues point towards a lack of planning/quality control?

Well if they caught it then there was quality control after all, wasn't there?

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how much residual heat is left after 4 billion years, but at the near surface all[1] the heat is due to radioactive decay. 1. Ok most :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_internal_heat_budget "The flow of heat from Earth's interior to the surface is estimated at 47 terawatts (TW) and comes from two main sources in roughly equal amounts : the radiogenic heat produced by the radioactive decay of isotopes in the mantle and crust, and the primordial heat left over from the formation of the Earth."

From the wiki article you quote.

Most of the heat flow from the thicker continental crust is attributed to internal radiogenic sources, in contrast the thinner oceanic crust has only 2% internal radiogenic heat.

In the Swiss alps most of the heat is coming from local radioactive decay.

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#104
post #3

"... longest and deepest rail tunnel ..." and "... delivered on time and within budget ..." Only in Switzerland, I guess. :) I wish there were better write ups of how the planning for this came together and what differs from other somewhat similar huge projects.

In parts you would rather have to give credits to the New Austrian Tunnelling method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Austrian_Tunnelling_method

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#105
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit harsh to me to call this "incredibly disrespectful". I doubt that "incredible disrespect" was intended, nor is it inherent to the statement. What I think you mean is that the grandparent comment strikes you personally as not recognising the efforts of other engineers around the world, and you wish it did. I think that would be a less incendiary and aggressive way to get your point across, and, in most…

Thank you for the comment but your recommendation is unnecessary - from reading your post it is clear that the major components of my complaint were understood without issue. Disrespect occurs with or without intent. The original poster's comment can only be construed in one way: the Swiss do things this way, it is better, and therefore everybody else does it wrong. The claim (50% spent on planning) is clearly and de…

HN is not a safe space. Disagree fine, but please don't try to outlaw speech because it's "disrespectful".

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#106
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems a bit harsh to me to call this "incredibly disrespectful". I doubt that "incredible disrespect" was intended, nor is it inherent to the statement. What I think you mean is that the grandparent comment strikes you personally as not recognising the efforts of other engineers around the world, and you wish it did. I think that would be a less incendiary and aggressive way to get your point across, and, in most…

Thank you for the comment but your recommendation is unnecessary - from reading your post it is clear that the major components of my complaint were understood without issue. Disrespect occurs with or without intent. The original poster's comment can only be construed in one way: the Swiss do things this way, it is better, and therefore everybody else does it wrong. The claim (50% spent on planning) is clearly and de…

The opinion being raised here is that the overall system the Swiss are using provides better results than those others are using. It's not necessarily that others don't put forth effort (despite the language), but that the Swiss yield the kind of results that others don't.

Most people aren't judged by effort. They're judged by results.

Another way of putting it: the proof of the engineering is in the working.

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#107
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, I live there ;)

To all you western europeans complaining: come down to Brazil, and I'll take you on a tour of our "Top Ten Most Abandoned-Halfway Billion Dollar Government Works" ;-) Oh, and just to give an example, the construction of one of our nuclear power plants began in 1984 but was halted in 1986, only to begin where it left off in 2010, to be finished in 2015. Wait, now it is in 2016. Nope, just checked, it should be in 2018…

Well construction of the Cologne Cathedral started in 1248 and was halted in 1473, only to begin where it left off in 1842 and was eventually completed in 1880 - so don't give up hope ;)

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#108
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you read that? The project site says they have created 26 miles of new tunnels, also wider ones than ever before (6.2m). As well as 10 new stations. And all of this is slap bang in the middle of Europe's biggest city, which is pretty damn poorly laid out and not exactly conducive to huge scale construction projects.

Wikipedia says: "The project's main feature is 21 km (13 mi) of new twin tunnels." So that 26 miles counts the tracks both ways. Well, it's not a short way, 42 km is a marathon.

True, but it's not like building a dual carriageway where it's essentially one road split in two, it's two independent tunnels running mostly in parallel. I'd wager that's more than twice as hard to do.

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#109
post #35
post #13

You can check a small animation[1] of the rail traffic from this upcoming weekend when the first passenger trains will pass through the tunnel http://maps.vasile.ch/transit-sbb/?hms=08:40:00&day=2016-06-... [1] http://imgur.com/cN3HKPp?v=2

So how much time approximately will be saved vs the existing routes?

In addition to the other replies, I want to point out that a major reason for the tunnel's existence isn't just to reduce travel times, but to provide an alternative way for freight to cross the mountains besides using trucks over the roads, which are dangerous and make a lot more pollution. Even if transit times for passengers don't decrease that much, this will be judged a success if it gets a lot of freight trucks off the road.

Re: World's longest and deepest rail tunnel to open in Switzerland

#110
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, more often than not, these requirement changes are used as excuses for extending the deadline so that project ends up being done "on time". I've worked in management on multi-year waterfall projects and this is how this game is played.

It would be fun to see an "agile" tunnel project. "This rock is too solid to drill through with our machines!" – "Ok, for now let's just drill around it and make it an underground rollercoaster instead of a railway, we can get back to the original design later!"

This actually happened in St. Petersburg, when they ran into difficulties tunneling under the river on Line 2. They ended up going under the difficult section, and now there's a 6% downgrade on that section of the line, which is pretty much a rollercoaster by subway train standards.
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