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Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

nautil.us

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Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#71

Post by xioxox »

brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

Church attendance is much higher in the US compared to other western countries (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance). Looking at the article, the death rate is decreasing in these countries, while it's not for the US whites.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#72

Post by further_tech »

Startups cannot do a thing.

Startups cannot change the fact people abandon their elderly parents. They'll just make it worse.

Startups cannot make people less egotistical or make them think about the other. They'll just make it worse.

Startups cannot take the existential anxiety and anger from you. They'll just make it worse.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#73

Post by seren »

eva1984 wrote: post #3

Why US is different from all the other countries in the charts? If author's hypothesis is right, that it is mainly about declining of economic status, I cannot see why other western countries would not follow a similar pattern. And from the chart, US's (whites) death rates takes off starting from late 90s, where the economy was doing great, while other countries' death rates keep declining even during great recession…

I believe people in the US are more mobile, so you can end up living in area where you are 1000 kilometers away from your children or family.

In Europe, people are generally less mobile (geographically) and countries are smaller, so you can still work in the city and still live in the vicinity of your elderly parents (let's say one-two hour drive).

Maybe less obvious, but people in Europe also tend to have more vacation (understatement), so it is much easier to visit your family more frequently.

As a European I am always surprised that people only see their family during Thanksgiving. I don't have data but looking at people I know, you see your family much more frequently there.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#74

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

further_tech wrote: post #65

Your argument is dominated by pragmatism, which often obfuscates what religion is all about. Great communities are a consequence of the chosen lifestyle and morality of religious people. You could gather just as many atheists and the response wouldn't be the same. EDIT: I'm not saying an atheist community would be WORSE than Christianity. I'm saying it would be DIFFERENT from the Christian one.

>Great communities are a consequence of the chosen lifestyle and morality of religious people

You don't give athiests and agnostics enough credit. Religion is not required for morals and community values.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#75

Post by irremediable »

tristor wrote: post #15

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with t…

I'm really unsure of this. I can completely believe it, but I can also believe it's completely incorrect. Maybe it turns out people checking their phone while they're with you is fine -- doesn't hurt social bonding in any way. Some of my shyer friends tell me it's actually helped them thrive in social situations. Whenever they get overwhelmed, they can take shelter with the phone for a bit.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#76

Post by huxley »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #54
brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

Churches are definitely a great community resource, but I imagine that many people (myself included) don't want to be preached something we don't believe in every week even if it means losing out on those community benefits. I wonder if something else could be established, or even if such a thing as "athiest/agnostic churches" could be organized.

You'll find that in some communities, the Universalist Unitarians or liberal/universalist/nontheist Quaker meetings might fit the need.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers

I've known several atheists/agnostics that go to both locally and the few times I've gone to either the meetings tend to be quite low in dogma. Not my thing, but if you crave that sort of community might be worth taking a look.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#77

Post by baron816 »

further_tech wrote: post #72

Startups cannot do a thing. Startups cannot change the fact people abandon their elderly parents. They'll just make it worse. Startups cannot make people less egotistical or make them think about the other. They'll just make it worse. Startups cannot take the existential anxiety and anger from you. They'll just make it worse.

Why not?

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#78

Post by iSnow »

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #63
brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

I think in a lot of places churches have served as a defactor "third place" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place ) for communities. It seems like the decline in church attendance mirrors the decline in a lot of third place spaces. None of my grandparents ever attended church with any regularity, but I know that they were all involved in various social and community activities with the types of clubs that don't…

In a lot of countries - Germany, Britain, France to be sure - the pub is such a third place, especially for men. Their special culture seems to be in decline as well, but not as dramatically as churches.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#79

Post by coldtea »

xioxox wrote: post #71
brightball wrote: post #35

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet othe…

Church attendance is much higher in the US compared to other western countries (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_attendance ). Looking at the article, the death rate is decreasing in these countries, while it's not for the US whites.

Yeah, but other countries might offer other social opportunities too, where the average american city, and especially the suburbs don't.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#80

Post by Anthony-G »

zellyn wrote: post #59
twoquestions wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with church is that it demands submission in exchange for community. Not only believe this way, but dress this way, eat this way, vote this way, and if you're in any way different you're as cut off as you would be if you stayed home, and if you're having hard times you must have done something to deserve it. I'm from Ohio so it may be different up here, but that's my experience.

"demands submission in exchange for community" - that's a fantastic way of phrasing it. I'll be using that in the future :-)

Islam is very explicit about this; the name actually means “submission”. In fairness to religion, all social groupings require their members to be bound by some form of commonality. Ideally, the shared beliefs/interests/ideology be as inclusive as possible but there is always some out-group.
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