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Alan Kay's reading list

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Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#141

Post by alankay »

DonHopkins wrote: post #103
alankay wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are any number of lists that would help getting started. The basic results are "multiple perspectives" and the sense that not all perspectives are equally powerful for given contexts. That list was for adult "business people". One would come up with other lists for children, etc. An important idea about reading is that part of the pleasure (maybe even more than that) is one's choice of "this book, now".…

I've heard you say that Rocky's Boots was one of your favorite computer games. Please, off the top of your head, what's your top-n list of inspiring games that you think people learning to program should play? I've been playing Factorio [1] [2], which I think would resonate with your love of Rocky's Boots, cellular automata, queuing theory, visual programming, system dynamics and distributed control systems. It's in…

Hi Don

I think I'm so out of context wrt video games here and now that I can't come up with a worthwhile reply. I liked Rocky's Boots because of the brilliant combination of the content and the idea behind the game play -- and they were well matched up. I liked the idea of its successor "Robot Odyssey" a lot, but advised the TLC folks to use something like Logo for the robot language rather than the Rocky's circuit diagrams (which were now not well matched up to the needs). As you know I really tried to get the Maxis people to make "Sim City" a rule based system that children could program in so they could both understand the generators and to change them (no luck there).

If I were to look around today, I'd look for something where the underlying content was really "good" for children -- I doubt that cellular automata would be in my top 10 -- and then would also have good to great game play.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#142

Post by alankay1 »

internaut wrote: post #137
alankay1 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a lot of really important "high hanging fruit" that needs to be done (for example real education for the entire world).

I forgot to ask. It's been circulating in the back of my mind for a while now. What do you think about Urbit? It seems to represent a fresh new start!

They have verve, and that's generally a good thing. In this case there are a lot of details that need to be grokked to make any reasonable comment. The use of combinators (a kind of dual of lambda calculus) harks back to an excellent thesis by Denis Seror at the University of Utah in the 70s that produced a safe, highly scalable and parallel implementation. I haven't looked at it more deeply (and probably should).

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#143

Post by alankay1 »

Nano2rad wrote: post #128
embarcadero wrote: post #86

Do you read on paper, tablet, phone, or all of the above? What do you think about the respective merits of these?

Digital Media May Be Changing How You Think. "Using digital platforms such as tablets and laptops for reading may make you more inclined to focus on concrete details rather than interpreting information more abstractly," https://www.dartmouth.edu/press-releases/digital-media-chang...

Thanks. This is interesting (and somewhat related to a Stanford thesis done by Steve Wyer ca 1980). And it has the fun irony of presenting a rather abstract result in the medium it says emphasizes concreteness ...

It would be good to know if they have tried studies that involve grades of reading fluency.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#145

Post by paulojreis »

alankay1 wrote: post #84
paulojreis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you have a place in your list for António Damásio's work on consciousness and, generally, the embodied mind?

I don't know whether I would include this book on the list for the Anderson Consulting people. It's worth reading for the context, perhaps not so much for the specific content.

I forgot to consider your list as aimed towards the Anderson Consulting people.

Having that audience in mind, wouldn't Manuel Castells' work (mostly, the "The Information Age" trilogy) be a good reference? Probably a little too vast.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#146

Post by alankay1 »

paulojreis wrote: post #145
alankay1 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know whether I would include this book on the list for the Anderson Consulting people. It's worth reading for the context, perhaps not so much for the specific content.

I forgot to consider your list as aimed towards the Anderson Consulting people. Having that audience in mind, wouldn't Manuel Castells' work (mostly, the "The Information Age" trilogy) be a good reference? Probably a little too vast.

Interesting suggestion! I think it was around when I made the list but I hadn't read it yet.

I think it might be too long for the intended purpose (maybe a little too academic?). On the other hand Mumford also wrote a trilogy "Technics and Civilization" that I did hope they would read ...

And certainly the McLuhan books are more cryptic for most readers. On the other hand ...

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#147

Post by paulojreis »

alankay1 wrote: post #146
paulojreis wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgot to consider your list as aimed towards the Anderson Consulting people. Having that audience in mind, wouldn't Manuel Castells' work (mostly, the "The Information Age" trilogy) be a good reference? Probably a little too vast.

Interesting suggestion! I think it was around when I made the list but I hadn't read it yet. I think it might be too long for the intended purpose (maybe a little too academic?). On the other hand Mumford also wrote a trilogy "Technics and Civilization" that I did hope they would read ... And certainly the McLuhan books are more cryptic for most readers. On the other hand ...

Castells ideas are indeed presented in a very readable manner, most of the times complemented with figures and data. In my "academic" tradition (communication/media sciences meets IT, in continental Europe), Castells is essentially a mandatory reference (even more than McLuhan).

Thinking about it, from a practical perspective, I'd eventually suggest "The Internet Galaxy: Reflections on the Internet, Business, and Society" instead of the trilogy. It should be more readable, definitely smaller, while still addressing most important concepts (for me, it was the spatial configuration in the information society: the space of flows).

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#148

Post by alankay1 »

paulojreis wrote: post #147
alankay1 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting suggestion! I think it was around when I made the list but I hadn't read it yet. I think it might be too long for the intended purpose (maybe a little too academic?). On the other hand Mumford also wrote a trilogy "Technics and Civilization" that I did hope they would read ... And certainly the McLuhan books are more cryptic for most readers. On the other hand ...

Castells ideas are indeed presented in a very readable manner, most of the times complemented with figures and data. In my "academic" tradition (communication/media sciences meets IT, in continental Europe), Castells is essentially a mandatory reference (even more than McLuhan). Thinking about it, from a practical perspective, I'd eventually suggest "The Internet Galaxy: Reflections on the Internet, Business, and Soc…

A piggy-back on "Gutenberg Galaxy"? I just ordered it just for the heck of it -- I'll admit to a prejudice of "not high hopes" for this, but it's worth a look.

This prejudice is part of a larger one (which is partly a generalization) that it is rare when commentators -- whether philosophers of science or other -- come close to having a good view. Of course, so many in fields are also quite blind to what is going on. Still, most of the good commentaries I know on science are by scientists, and most of the good commentaries on computing are by computerists. And music ... etc.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#149

Post by paulojreis »

alankay1 wrote: post #148
paulojreis wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Castells ideas are indeed presented in a very readable manner, most of the times complemented with figures and data. In my "academic" tradition (communication/media sciences meets IT, in continental Europe), Castells is essentially a mandatory reference (even more than McLuhan). Thinking about it, from a practical perspective, I'd eventually suggest "The Internet Galaxy: Reflections on the Internet, Business, and Soc…

A piggy-back on "Gutenberg Galaxy"? I just ordered it just for the heck of it -- I'll admit to a prejudice of "not high hopes" for this, but it's worth a look. This prejudice is part of a larger one (which is partly a generalization) that it is rare when commentators -- whether philosophers of science or other -- come close to having a good view. Of course, so many in fields are also quite blind to what is going on.…

After reading the trilogy, particularly the first book, I don't think "The Internet Galaxy" will add much. Even the following "big" one from Castells, "Mobile Communication and Society: A Global Perspective", won't add much from a conceptual standpoint (although an amusing read, I think).

My perspective on Castells is biased because it was essentially the backbone of my academic training. I had teachers telling us explicitly that Castells' notion of information society was the framework (in the Kuhnian sense) on which we'd build upon. Having that in mind, I see Castells as a sociologist and his work (sociological) as a view on a society defined by information flows (not exactly computing, although computing and telecommunications are key enablers). Still, he keeps technological determinism at bay by considering the impact of geography, territory, matter - the physical (tangible?) dimension.

What I like quite much about his work is exactly this aspect: he presents a vision of a society dominated by the intangible, while still dedicating rather extensive chapters on the geographical asymmetries of the world. This avoidance of technological determinism, the "information is key but place and physicality still matter a lot, as evidenced by real-world data" notion is why I see Castells as a great reference.

Re: Alan Kay's reading list

#150

Post by morbidhawk »

alankay1 wrote: post #52
olavk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dante has a solution for this: There is a place in the upper section of hell with no punishment or torment, reserved for "just heathens" like Socrates. So technically he did not go to heaven since he is denied the closeness to God, but arguably this is an even nicer afterlife, since he can continue thinking and questioning things together with other great minds.

And consider that the Mormons did get Socrates into heaven (via proxy baptism!)

Exmormon here, to get into VIP Heaven (highest kingdom in heaven) he also needs temple endowment and temple sealing done by proxy too (which they've probably done). Don't tell me you converted to mormonism because of this
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