We need to ensure Living Wage is paid.
Moving Forward on Basic Income
841–850 of 1001 posts
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#842Earlier quoted context omitted.
> in 20 years there are simply no jobs available to 60% of the population Said people in the early 1800s. And early 1900s. Look, it's just not gonna happen. Jobs will change, but there will always be work for those willing to do it. You may not like the job - hell, you may not like your current job either - or it may be a better job than any that exists today. Look around you, how many of the jobs you see people doin…
> but there will always be work for those willing to do it. No there won't, the past doesn't predict the future and post scarcity is a different problem than past automation. If you're looking to the past for examples, you don't understand the problem being discussed because the whole point is that automation is at a level that even white collar jobs are no longer immune and most people simply aren't going to be able…
"Post-scarcity" is nonsense and would end all problems if it wasn't. The problem is declining real value of most people's best laborer prospects without eliminating scarcity. Which isn't no jobs, just progressively crapper jobs for a large segment of these population.
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#843The most compelling case I've seen made recently for basic income is from Yanis Varoufakis (the infamous Greek finance minister who resigned after refusing to agree to the terms of the bailout that the Greek people voted against in a referendum): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvgdtF3y0Ss There were many gems in that talk, but this one stood out to me in particular: "The right to turn down a job is essential for a w…
The right to turn down all work, at an evolutionary level, is granted only to photosynthetic organisms.
What sort of organism is our society? As a group, we have granted the right to turn down all work to numerous individuals. Since before we picked up tools we have been driven to minimize unwanted labour. Perhaps we are evolving into the 0.01%
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#844So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…
I fully expect the market to take over in this regard, providing opt-out "BI services," which will provide people all basic needs that fit within the basic income stipend. That way people won't even have to think about taking care of their most basic needs (utilities, food, communication, transit).
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#845Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'll find there are two voices for BI, the liberal and the liberatian. The liberal would prefer to keep universal healthcare and food programs and put cash on top, making the total distribution to the poor larger. The liberatian would prefer to simply move the complex paternalistic safety net into a simpler cash payment which doesn't disincentivize work while not increasing it's size. As an aside, if you pay attent…
The thing I'd like to see is government services that will optionally replace portions of your Basic Income. If you're having problems feeding yourself, I would like to see an opt-in program where you can receive food, in exchange for $X out of your BI. If you're having problems housing yourself, an opt-in program for housing in exchange for $Y out of your BI. The same options should be available for all the necessit…
How funny, we have the same idea, but I think it's going to be market driven, but kind of like obamacare, where its opt-out with a basic provider given to everyone.
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#846I can't help but wonder - if there is basic income, won't the economy adjust and prices would rise so that any basic income would be insufficient again to buy you anything more than food for a week (not enough for rent or anything fancier)?
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#847The most compelling case I've seen made recently for basic income is from Yanis Varoufakis (the infamous Greek finance minister who resigned after refusing to agree to the terms of the bailout that the Greek people voted against in a referendum): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvgdtF3y0Ss There were many gems in that talk, but this one stood out to me in particular: "The right to turn down a job is essential for a w…
Let's say you have a person living in a remote area and they don't interact much with other people and they don't have a basic income. Are they free?
Let's say someone lives in the city without BI, is it fair to say that moving into the wilderness is an option for them, and therefore they are free? Does it change if they started in the wilderness?
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#848So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…
Given the that someone on BI has a guaranteed income, loans will be no problem and affordable. The risk being assumed by the lender is lifespan and capacity to live within your means.
And if you get to the point where your cost of living and debt repayments can't be met by your BI, I guess you need to get a job, be institutionalized or declared bankrupt. Just like today. BI isn't going to replace prisons, mental hospitals, or rehabilitation centers (although it may provide a way of funding them, if for example you sign away a prisoner's BI to the prison).
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#849wow, as of writing this comment there are 1114 points and 1134 comments
i remember only a few years ago developing a model for capitalism without the need to acquire capital and being mocked, ridiculed, and chastised
i am glad to see that this conversation is so mainstream now and the strongest voices are becoming those in support
Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income
#850Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right to turn down all work, at an evolutionary level, is granted only to photosynthetic organisms.
The right to free speech and religious expression at an evolutionary level is non-existent. What's your point?
Free speech and freedom of religion demands nothing of your neighbors except non interference. Basic income, on the other hand, demands their labor (at our current level of technology). In the future automation may change this, but right now there is a big gap between demanding free as in speech and free as in beer.