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Moving Forward on Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

101–110 of 1001 posts

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#101
post #78

I've recently been researching the structured settlement (annuity) industry. It seems like as soon as someone has a guaranteed set of future payments, you will get structured settlement brokers reaching out, offering to buy out their future payments for a (often low-ball) lump sum today, and many will take it. Will you permit these kinds of side deals?

You can't sell your social security benefits, so I would guess the same restrictions would apply.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#102
post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

The same way it works with social security today.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#103
One of the big differences between the government writing checks and a private organization, are the tax consequences. Does anybody know exactly how that would work? Would it just be self employment income, with all the self employment taxes? Or would it be a gift (and tax free if under $14k/yr)?

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#104
post #74

If I live in Oakland or know someone who does can I tell them to sign up for free money?

We're not sure how we're going to pick the participants yet, though we do know it will be a random selection process, in-line with randomized control trial principles. If you know anyone from Oakland that has feedback though, feel free to have them get in touch! matt@ycombinator.com, or basicincome@ycr.org

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#105
Can anyone explain how this can be implemented mathematically? Assume 300 million people @ $12k / year, you are spending $3.6 trillion. That is already more than current government revenue, leaving all current government services unfunded.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#106
post #34

Unfortunately, the explanation most consistent with data on happiness/satisfaction is that the primary utility gain from wealth is derived from gains in zero-sum social status. We can tell this even from the language of the post itself: "everyone should have enough money to meet their basic needs." Basic needs? Everyone in America has their basic needs. Almost all of the _basic_ needs of a human, i.e. those that we r…

If the whole game is zero sum, then thats great! The solution to a zero sum game is easy. Redistribute wealth from everyone so that everyone is equally happy. There is no need to worry about innovation or discouraging people from working. Its zero sum, so we may as well go with the fair solution of 100% income redistribution and 100% basic income.

If you were optimizing for happiness only and had no ethical concerns about methods, then yes, a very flat or close to flat distribution is likely optimal.

Like you, I believe that there are things more important from the perspective of society than mean happiness.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#107
post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

>Do you tell them "tough shit, you've exhausted all your social safety nets" At that point we would need to investigate to see if this failure is being caused by mental illness. Treatment would be much easier if our current homeless shelters could use their infrastructure to help people like this. They take your UBI check and give you a place to stay, treat you for drug addictions, etc etc. Either that or you end up…

I think it's a bit of a stretch to lump "failure to budget properly" under "mental illnes".

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#108
post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

This literally is why food stamps exist. So people on food stamps can only buy food and not lottery tickets.

GP understands this, I think. The assumption is that BI will replace food stamps and/or other social welfare programs. This being the case, the question is: what if the recipient carelessly spends their BI, and does not have enough money at the end of the month to pay for fundamentals (rent, food, etc.) given that the food stamp program has been replaced by BI.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#109

Why not look at folks who have some variant of basic income -- retirees. Especially public sector. There's lots of data there to look at. I have a friend who was a fireman who developed some health problems at 44 which made doing his job difficult without putting himself and others at risk. He's now retired at approximately half pay, with healthcare. He's now doing stuff that he is passionate about -- cooking BBQ for…

Great point! We want to see how the income affects younger people as well. They still have the option of working, but they may have the freedom to do other things.

Re: Moving Forward on Basic Income

#110
post #60

So, a question for the BI fans: I've seen it said repeatedly that BI will save us money (or at least, not be so outrageously expensive) in part because we can eliminate existing welfare programs. "Just cut a single check, no more overhead from several agencies", they say. But riddle me this: what do you do when someone on BI has a financial emergency or, as will happen with some regularity, just flat-out blows all th…

Personally, I'd hope the system would absolutely tell them "tough shit". There's got to be a line where the safety net gives out, because someone is too expensive to help. That's where family and charity hopefully take over. At the same time, I think your instinct is right, and it's something I've never heard mentioned before. It's almost inevitably that there'll then be the "food security" fund, and the "housing gua…

"Tough shit" sucks when parents blow their handout on lottery tickets and drugs, leaving their children in perpetual poverty.
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