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The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

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Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#81

Post by dang »

wahsd wrote: post #59
knodi123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> muslims are voluntarily part of a vile organization founded by vile savages I was on board with your rant until this point, but I refuse to wave a pitchfork around and scream for blood with someone who doesn't even own a thesaurus.

What, because I reinforced the fact that islam is a vile organization founded by vile savages? Are you so feeble minded that you dismiss reality simply because a concept is repeated. Islam was founded by people who slaughtered people who surrendered, and then mass raped their wives in the blood soaked soil and then enslaved them. What other word does your thesaurus suggest could be used besides vile? Islam is a cance…

Religious flamewars are not allowed on HN.

We've banned this account.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#82

Post by cmurf »

logfromblammo wrote: post #39
knodi123 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason the U.S. should be allies with the House of Saud. We have almost no aligned interests and very different views on human rights and Wahhabism. Well, in isolation, sure. But in the broader geopolitical sense, it really does make sense to have at least one close ally in that region.

Americans are better aligned with the largely Shi'ite Muslim Persians than with Wahhabbist (Sunni) Muslim Arabs. Note that this has almost nothing to do with relations between the governments of the U.S. and Iran. On the axis of prince to ayatollah, I prefer the ayatollah. On the axis of theocratic absolute monarchy to theocratic constitutional republic, I prefer the republic. Supporting the Shah was a mistake. Suppo…

"support" personal and economic freedoms for all people is code for what policy, exactly? Because the word is vague on its own, and in the way in which you're using it. This sounds like a very interventionist foreign policy, otherwise what else could "support" mean, if it's at all a meaningful statement?

I also think you severely underestimate the strength of entrepreneurship as a social class, in that area of the world. It's not like they materialize out of nowhere the instant the U.S. stops propping up strongarm governments. They didn't exist in any signficant number before U.S. intervenist policies either. And by what moral authority do you draw upon to suggest that these countries should be modeling themselves off the U.S. economically in the first place?

I think the better policy is to leave them alone, in the John Quincy Adams approach to foreign policy. https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/jqadams.htm

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#83

Post by dang »

knodi123 wrote: post #21
wahsd wrote: post #19

We really should simply cancel all debt and confiscate all assets owned by Saudi Arabia and any other muslim country as consequence for 9/11 and all the other terrorist attacks against the west hat muslims are organizing, supporting, and funding in order to undermine, fracture, and weaken the west with the help of self-loathing and self-destructive liberals. What are they going to do about it. Will Europeans all the…

> muslims are voluntarily part of a vile organization founded by vile savages I was on board with your rant until this point, but I refuse to wave a pitchfork around and scream for blood with someone who doesn't even own a thesaurus.

Please don't egg this kind of thing on—it has predictable and unwanted results.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#84

Post by mikeash »

SCAQTony wrote: post #37

We pretty much put a price on our morality. Looking at the bond holders graph, it appears we owe about a 1/2-trillion dollars to oil producing nations. It's no wonder we tolerate tolerate gross human rights violations therein. Sort of like that J. Paul Getty Quote: "If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem." Makes me wonder if we have a similar deal wit…

Wouldn't the Getty quote imply that it's China and Saudi Arabia who have the problem, not the US?

I don't know about "sacrifice our industrial sector" thing, either. The US is the world's second largest exporter. Those exports just happen to be somewhat less visible since they include a lot of things outside of consumer goods. You can walk around the US and see all the Chinese-made phones and think, "China sure makes a lot of stuff." But most people won't walk around China and see all the US-made airliners and think, "The US sure makes a lot of stuff too."

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#85

Post by strictnein »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #66
api wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The student debt indenture system is the same thing in the microcosm.

Was does the debt force you to do other than hold a job? Heaven forbid. Nobody forced you to take money. If anything it's a coup for politicians who want to push debt forgiveness as one of their platforms. Get everyone into debt and then offer forgiveness for votes.

And prop up a sector that donates a fair amount of money to political campaigns.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#86

Post by Chris2048 »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #67
pjc50 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

having bases in countries that have more than sufficient GDP to protect themselves As in Germany, the bases aren't there for the US to protect that country but the other way round: to ensure that country remains US-aligned.

Actually most of these bases are there because when there's trouble in those parts of the world, we need a place to be able to get troops, equipment and supplies into a given theater in a fast, efficient manner. The countries reap the economic benefits for sure, so it's a win/win situation for both countries. Not so much when the US starts cutting back on its military: City officials in Heidelberg expect annual finan…

> when one country invades another

NATO? PeaceKeepers?

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#87

Post by jonstokes »

snowwrestler wrote: post #45
jonstokes wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I read a good book on the collapse of the USSR (can't remember the title, too lazy to go back and find it right now). One of the major factors that the author identified was glasnost ("transparency"), which I'm old enough to remember being talked about on the news at the time. Basically, his thesis was that it was the transparency, after a generation of buildup of really nasty official secrets, that u…

The difference between the USSR in the 1990s and the U.S. today is that the U.S. has cultural and governmental norms that accept and manage change. I know that's not necessarily going to be universally accepted here on HN, where it's somewhat popular to assert that all politicians are the same, all the strings are pulled by a small group of global elites, etc. We have contentious national elections frequently, and to…

This makes sense, and I think (and hope) it's probably right.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#88

Post by mark_l_watson »

aedron wrote: post #12

The most surprising thing is the backdoor arrangements the Treasury and Federal Reserve handily created to keep Saudi bonds purchases off the books - through forty years! I'm sure most people would not believe something like this could be done - that actual governing and federal dealing is so hidden, through changing administrations, in spite of apparent transparency, like annual reports, budgets, hearings, and so on…

+1 Couldn't agree more.

This story would have really surprised me 10 years ago but now I accept that the Economic Royalty (or Deep Government, or whatever you want to call them) use a lack of transparency to do what profits them.

Re: The Untold Story Behind Saudi Arabia’s U.S. Treasury Holdings

#89

Post by api »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #66
api wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The student debt indenture system is the same thing in the microcosm.

Was does the debt force you to do other than hold a job? Heaven forbid. Nobody forced you to take money. If anything it's a coup for politicians who want to push debt forgiveness as one of their platforms. Get everyone into debt and then offer forgiveness for votes.

"Nobody forced you to take the money."

Prices rise to what the market will bear. Cheap debt means the market will "bear" more than it would in a less leveraged society.

If everyone but me takes a loan, the price of tuition goes up. This means I now have to take a loan or not go to school (which means I can't get a job).

Same happens with housing. If everyone but me takes out a jumbo mortgage, prices go up and I now must take out a jumbo mortgage or forego homeownership.

As long as a degree is a required piece of paper to obtain most jobs, college will be a requirement. As long as rent offers no equity and mortgage interest (but not rent) is deductible, homeownership will remain one of the middle class's sole paths to the accumulation of wealth.

Today's wacky "in-deflationary" economic condition can continue as long as central banks hold interest rates near zero and wages are stagnant.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_rent

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