Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege • Hacker News Board

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#91

Post by godembodied » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:32 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #75

godembodied wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

helping to level the playing field by giving extra help to those who don't have that step-up Why does someone who is privileged have the obligation to help those that are not?

From my system of morality, people have a responsibility to provide aid to those who are less well off, and alsoalso have a responsibility to provide knowledge to those who do not have it. I think this follows from the idea that we all have a right to life, dignity, and knowledge. However after some thought, and the rather unpleasant experience of having attempted to discuss and argue this point before, I do not thin…

  From my system of morality...

Why do you follow that system of morality and not another one?

For example, people adopt and use Gauss's law, because they think it's objectively true. Is that the case with your moral system? Is that moral system objectively true or is it a matter of your opinion?

   ...idea that we all have a right to life, dignity, and knowledge.

The question is whether this is actually true or not. Theory of evolution is an idea, but we ask whether it's true. We don't call it an idea and expect people to take it seriously. You have to provide some arguments that humans actually have right to life and that others have the obligation to help those in need.

  ...rather we would end up arguing opinions.

Wait, so morality for you is a difference of opinions? Kinda like: 'I like chocolate ice cream, you like vanilla ice cream'.

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#92

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:35 PM UTC

yarou wrote: post #10

> We praise people that are “courageous” enough to quit their 9-to-5 and dive into the deep end of the exciting unknown. We idealize and romanticize the idea of being our own boss and being in charge of our own schedule. To take a risk and reap the bountiful benefits. Yet no one talks about the real sustainability or self-sufficiency of this formula when the playing field is never even. There are risks and then there…

[deleted]

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#93

Post by yardie » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:35 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #68

fao_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't, and never has been, about apologising. It is about recognising that you had a step-up based on being part of a particular demographic, and then either acknowledging that other people won't necessarily have had those step-ups, helping to level the playing field by giving extra help to those who don't have that step-up, or both. So, basically equalising things a wee bit.

>" helping to level the playing field by giving extra help to those who don't have that step-up, or both. " On a more overall point, I'd say that doing such a thing, even if noble and "well-meaning", actually demeans the work of the people that actually created the difference in "step-ups" as you refer to them in the first place. Some things are given to you by coincidence of birth and location. But other things, the…

When you try to help others understand technology better it does not demean your work. Quite the opposite, people see the work and understand the dedication that the people who write the tools they use put in.

I mean if you understand art that you recognize that it's a lot of work even if you aren't an artist. Those that don't know just assume it's as simple as flicking paint on a canvas and charging a fortune.

The same people will assume you can build a website for $100 because they have no knowledge on what the work requires.

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#94

Post by soham » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:44 PM UTC

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #85

I don't understand the extremist views of blog posts like this. Do you really need to think in such simplistic "truisms" and catch phrases? > Quitting your job to pursue your passion is bullshit. Not at all true. I know plenty of working class people who have saved money at their day jobs, researched a small business opportunity, and chosen to pursue it. A decent portion of them are succeeding beyond their wildest ex…

Amen.

I'm one of those. I understand the intent of this article. It's however unfortunate that the author has not come across enough success stories. Here is mine, which is arguably very small, but came out of exactly the same situation of an employee branching out:

* I saved, I was clear about not only what I like to do, but also what I'm good at.

* I couldn't get to it in my 20s, but I did get to it in my 30s.

* Yes, there was privilege, but not any more than so many of my friends and acquaintances have. I didn't come from money either.

* Yes, there was luck, but not any more than what I'd have needed to survive as an employee.

* Yes, there was agony of survival, still is, will continue to be, and only increase. But I expected that going in, and I carefully created a support system for it, which comes in handy in those tough times.

* Yes, there were unexpected events, including existential threats, but not any more than what I'd have had while working as an employee.

* It has only been a year and a half, and I'm in no position to sermonize, lecture and draw conclusions. But I know that I'm having a blast. I am answerable to nobody but reason, I have flexibility with my time like I never had, and I have immense satisfaction of being the first one to introduce a new useful thing to this planet and make an impact in lives of several of my customers.

But most importantly, it has afforded me life lessons which I'd have never had otherwise and I can accelerate my kids into. Yes, I'm making more than I'd have made in my job, but who is even looking at that?

[For the curious, I run this: http://InterviewKickstart.com]

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#95

Post by Mendenhall » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:47 PM UTC

This article comes off very bitter to me, its like she failed so she is angry.

"But what bothers me most is how we prop up the entrepreneurial class to be inherently brave and courageous."

I think she projects how she felt about entrepreneurs onto everyone else. I never thought of them as inherently brave, there are many kinds.

One small other thought is if it wasnt for entrepreneurs everyone else would have no one to work for. I am an entrepreneur not because of any particular bravery, I just like knowing there is no one to blame but me if I fail.

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#96

Post by zxcvvcxz » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:52 PM UTC

soham wrote: post #94

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #85

I don't understand the extremist views of blog posts like this. Do you really need to think in such simplistic "truisms" and catch phrases? > Quitting your job to pursue your passion is bullshit. Not at all true. I know plenty of working class people who have saved money at their day jobs, researched a small business opportunity, and chosen to pursue it. A decent portion of them are succeeding beyond their wildest ex…

Amen. I'm one of those. I understand the intent of this article. It's however unfortunate that the author has not come across enough success stories. Here is mine, which is arguably very small, but came out of exactly the same situation of an employee branching out: * I saved, I was clear about not only what I like to do, but also what I'm good at. * I couldn't get to it in my 20s, but I did get to it in my 30s. * Ye…

Congratulations on your success thus far, I think you've started a great business that serves a real need. Hope it's people like you writing more blog posts in the future.

Off-topic: a while back I toyed with the idea of making an interview coding practice smartphone app, so people could practice anywhere or on the go. You guys look into any mobile products? Feel free to run wild with the idea if you like it =)

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#97

Post by ZeroGravitas » Mon, May 30, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #74

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

geeze you're touchy. rush limbaugh got you too worked up today? All he is saying is that not everyone can go home and live with their parents when they fail. Not sure where guilt plays into this other than in your own mind/narrative.

But why point it out? It's one of the least "privilegy" privilege I could imagine. Living with parents is the default , something "privileged" people try to escape. It's more economically sensible, so in this way poor people are more "privileged" by being more likely to live with their parents. Yes, you could point out various groups like people who've lost their parents, or people with abusive parents, etc. but at t…

By Jove he's got it! No wait, those last two words suggest it's not quite sunk in.

I enjoyed the journey of this post, where we went from not even being able to imagine something worse than living with your parents, to realising, what if I didn't have parents? What if they kicked me out? What if... a hundred different scenarios that real people have to deal with in their lives.

It was like watching personal growth happen right in front of my eyes. But looks like it didn't quite stick

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#98

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, May 30, 2016, 10:07 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #97

TeMPOraL wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why point it out? It's one of the least "privilegy" privilege I could imagine. Living with parents is the default , something "privileged" people try to escape. It's more economically sensible, so in this way poor people are more "privileged" by being more likely to live with their parents. Yes, you could point out various groups like people who've lost their parents, or people with abusive parents, etc. but at t…

By Jove he's got it! No wait, those last two words suggest it's not quite sunk in. I enjoyed the journey of this post, where we went from not even being able to imagine something worse than living with your parents, to realising, what if I didn't have parents? What if they kicked me out? What if... a hundred different scenarios that real people have to deal with in their lives. It was like watching personal growth ha…

> It was like watching personal growth happen right in front of my eyes. But looks like it didn't quite stick

Hey, at least I got a close brush with it. :).

Seriously though, my point is that you can make arbitrary thing into a "privilege" by selecting a subgroup of society that doesn't have that thing. You could also turn the table around and say that the not-havers are "privileged" by growing up not having to depend on having that thing. So what's the point of even bringing it up in this context? It's not like not being able to move in with your parents makes you ill-equipped to start a business. Let's reserve talking about "privilege" for big things that block off some desired ways of life on a large scale.

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#99

Post by blackrose » Mon, May 30, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

jxm262 wrote: post #52

blackrose wrote: post #40

Was looking for something insightful, but I guess I haven't heard (and bought into) the same stories as the author. I quit my job half a year ago to do the "entrepreneurial lifestyle", but I'm not going around telling everyone to quit their job and be as ostensibly great and care-free as I am. Of course I'm thankful for my situation, and realize I'm luckier than many Americans, and lucky to live in a prosperous count…

I'm curious what you're working on for the "entrepreneurial lifestyle". I"m actually thinking of going a similar route to saving up a good few years worth of expenses, and then going solo. I'm trying to decide on contracting/consulting vs build my own product (I've done the latter fairly successfully before). Would you care to share your experiences or perhaps email for a couple questions?

I'll shoot you an email too, but I'm building a product. I started it 6 months before quitting, and by the time I put in my resignation I had a good amount of users and steady growth that's only continued since.

At first I did some consulting to help with expenses, but eventually I dropped that work so I could focus better on the product. But I also reveled a bit too much in the initial freedom after quitting, and took way longer to get the product to the next stage (which I'm now at) where I've got good features my users will pay for. So now I actually just accepted a salaried job again, as I only saved up enough for Overall I've learned more in these past months about business, product development, software development, managing people and finances than I would've in a lifetime working for someone else -- and that was my real goal. So overall it's been a success, and next time I do this I imagine I'll be much more effective.

Re: Quitting your job to pursue your passion is a privilege

#100

Post by fao_ » Mon, May 30, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

godembodied wrote: post #91

fao_ wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my system of morality, people have a responsibility to provide aid to those who are less well off, and alsoalso have a responsibility to provide knowledge to those who do not have it. I think this follows from the idea that we all have a right to life, dignity, and knowledge. However after some thought, and the rather unpleasant experience of having attempted to discuss and argue this point before, I do not thin…

From my system of morality... Why do you follow that system of morality and not another one? For example, people adopt and use Gauss's law, because they think it's objectively true. Is that the case with your moral system? Is that moral system objectively true or is it a matter of your opinion? ...idea that we all have a right to life, dignity, and knowledge. The question is whether this is actually true or not. Theo…

  Is that moral system objectively true or is it a matter of your opinion?
  ...
  Theory of evolution is an idea ...

Given relative morality (That everyone's moral views of the world differ in ways subtle to extreme), I don't think that morality is objectively debatable, since your view of the world is coloured by your system of morality. We can debate whether the theory of evolution is true because we have something other that we can compare against: 'Does this model accurately represent what is happening in the world', etc. Doing that with morality is impossible, it is a concept that is relevant only to humans.

A half-baked example would be: If you kill a billion wildflowers, then that has a measurable effect on the surrounding environment, sure. But at the end of the day there is nothing to say whether the effect that had on the environment is good or bad. It is just an event, it happens, there isn't anything deeper here from an objective point of view. Right and wrong only come into it when you have a preference for a particular outcome. So you view this act as good if you have a preference towards the outcome of a city being built, or you view this as bad if you have a preference towards plant life being left intact. Since we all have different preferences for different outcomes, everybody's systems of morality are inherently different -- even if that difference is not pronounced in most cases.

  Wait, so morality for you is a difference of opinions? 
  Kinda like: 'I like chocolate ice cream, you like vanilla ice cream'.

That is one way you could state it, sure.

  Why do you follow that system of morality and not another one?

I follow my system of morality because I have a preference against harming life. What I mean by this (ignoring the recursion, of course), is that I have been exposed to an overwhelming amount of stimuli, situations, and recollections where this opinion is presented as the preferable decision (Say, Star Trek, etc.), compared to the alternatives I have been exposed to.