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Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

blogs.lse.ac.uk

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Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#51

Post by jonathankoren »

ams6110 wrote: post #44
jonathankoren wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. Corporations are run by people. People with agendas. And at the upper echelons it's agendas to make them selves as rich as possible. This idea that somehow people aren't responsible is absurd. Presumably you work for a corporation. Do you check your brain at the door when you go in and turn yourself over to Master Control at the start of each day? No, of course not. It's long past time to give up this fiction…

There are people at all levels of society who's agenda is "make them selves as rich as possible" from drug dealers and pimps to restaurant owners, car dealers, realtors, lawyers, doctors, you name it. Nothing special about corporate executives.

The scale of their power is what makes them special. Tell me, when was the last time you made a decision than tanked an entire regional economy, or perhaps ruined the finances of a thousand families while lining your pockets? When was the last time you decided to simply ignore the law and then had the government come to you shaking how to change it to make you legal again? When was the last time you had law changed for your personal benefit? I don't think you can.

That's what makes it different.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#52

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

ommunist wrote: post #15

remember 1917 in Russia, and how much the SovietUnion did for the world and its nations until 1991, by just removing the rich and concentrating power with government, led by proper ideology. Stalin got the country of illiterate peasants with ploughs and left it with 100% literacy, and the nukes.

> remember 1917 in Russia,

Yep. 'Someone' tossed a Bolshevik grenade at Russia, and made sure that Eurasia would be knocked out for the rest of the century.

Worked brilliantly.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#53

Post by 11thEarlOfMar »

ParrotyError wrote: post #37
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #17

Part of the reasoning here is that rentiers are not contributing to wealth creation and therefore their earnings on the rent are parasitic, therefore 'unjust and dysfuctional': "Since it’s a payment for nothing that didn’t already exist, it’s a deadweight cost, and so not only unjust but also dysfunctional for the economy. " The practice of renting exists as an option to owning. By renting, renters can engage in an a…

"In the example of home rental, making homes available for rent enables families to live in accommodations that they would not be able to purchase. These accommodations are not without cost to the owner: Taxes, utilities, maintenance, security and administration are all associated costs that rent payments offset. What the rentier provides in most cases, is a better quality of life than the family could have if they w…

All true, and the problem exists in many geographies. However, I don't think a shortage of housing is caused by rentiers or super-rich, which is the topic of the article. More to do with government policies in most cases.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#54

Post by dnautics »

adwhit wrote: post #35

HN tends to be extremely reactionary to posts like this. Perhaps because the tech/startup scene is all about getting rich quick, or perhaps because HN has come to partially reflect the personal views of PG. There will be a reckoning. The world is 'unsustainably unequal' at the moment. There are huge problems on the horizon - superbugs, climate change, resource depletion, environmental degradation, overpopulation. The…

Why does government have to do something? Don't you suppose it's part of the problem? We have an economic system imposed on us that is unsustainable and redistributes from the poor to the wealthy in the name of economic stability, "growth" and "creating jobs" as if optimizing those metrics will necessarily be to the benefit of anyone but the top.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#55

Post by mtrn »

From a developer perspective many aspects of the current system (with respect to resource usage and allocation) look like technical debt. Governments may try to make ends meet with limited budgets and come up with sometimes nonsensical or just not really thought out solutions to problems. Meanwhile the world learns about the Panama papers and related things, getting the impression, that not everybody is happy with contributing back to the community at large.

The simple minded software developers solution would be to radically cut out the cruft (complex laws and tax systems) and implement a simplified version, that would be harder to game and easier to debug.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#56

Post by jonathankoren »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #11
_yosefk wrote: post #2

TTIP is pushed by corporations , not individual rich people. A corporation will want that even if every one of its stockholders has a below-median wealth. More generally, organizations and people working for them will pursue their goals and these goals will be misaligned with the interests of the population at large even if nobody is involved whose net worth is particularly remarkable. If corporations are eliminated…

It is a finger pointing game today. The rich say, it is not our fault, the corporations are doing that. The corporations say: We have to do that, because the "market" is demanding higher interest rates! So, who is to blame: "The Market"?? The politics that do, what the "market" wants, or the workers, that do not work 10% fast every year to secure the rising interest rates? We have created a system, that allows everyb…

They won't need people to clean their rooms and empty their trash. That's what the robots are for.

They just stay their safe rooms with Tom Perkins waiting for his kristallnacht.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#57

Post by smt88 »

dnautics wrote: post #54
adwhit wrote: post #35

HN tends to be extremely reactionary to posts like this. Perhaps because the tech/startup scene is all about getting rich quick, or perhaps because HN has come to partially reflect the personal views of PG. There will be a reckoning. The world is 'unsustainably unequal' at the moment. There are huge problems on the horizon - superbugs, climate change, resource depletion, environmental degradation, overpopulation. The…

Why does government have to do something? Don't you suppose it's part of the problem? We have an economic system imposed on us that is unsustainable and redistributes from the poor to the wealthy in the name of economic stability, "growth" and "creating jobs" as if optimizing those metrics will necessarily be to the benefit of anyone but the top.

If something has to be done on a large scale, government has to do it.

Massive change has to be through a medium that is culpable and transparent. That is, in theory, a position only a government can or should hold.

US government needs thorough reform, but the mechanism of change has to be a government in the end.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#58

Post by styrophone »

petra wrote: post #42
hueving wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless subsidized or losing money, the rent is more than a mortgage payment would be. If we had low enough transaction costs it would be better if everyone just owned their homes via mortgage for even short time frames.

In Israel, in the 50's-80's, in government housing there was a kind of rent that accumulated towards payment of your house. And i'm not 100% sure, but maybe even if you needed to move houses(in coordination with government rent company), the collected money would have transported with you to your new house. EDIT: just to add context - Israel had a huge challenge - it was created with the goal of being a home for ever…

Rent-to-own in general exists as a concept in many places, but it has a sour reputation due to the predatory practice of vanishing equity. Essentially, a renter is sold on a higher rent price on the premise that it will result in their eventual ownership. However, if they fail to make rent or must leave early for various circumstances, they have no equity to recoup. In some cases, this serves as an incentive to force out a tenant, and in worse cases, that's the design of the scheme from the beginning. Government housing programs tend not to fall under this category, but I have heard of some governments (e.g. Singapore) revoking housing rights without return of any capital as a penalty for certain violations.

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#59

Post by ParrotyError »

ams6110 wrote: post #50
ParrotyError wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the example of home rental, making homes available for rent enables families to live in accommodations that they would not be able to purchase. These accommodations are not without cost to the owner: Taxes, utilities, maintenance, security and administration are all associated costs that rent payments offset. What the rentier provides in most cases, is a better quality of life than the family could have if they w…

The answer to this is build more housing. Who or what is preventing that?

All kinds of things. Large organisations (supermarket chains like Tesco) holding onto vast "land banks," new property being bought up and left vacant by foreign investors as fast as it can been build (a big problem in London and Cambridge), construction companies and their investors who want to restrict the supply to keep prices high, a lack of suitable places to build new housing (lack of infrastructure, protected countryside...). Everywhere I look I keep seeing new flats (apartments) being built where offices used to be but they are empty, so it's a bit of a mystery. Maybe these are of the wrong type or these are examples of the ones the foreign investors are buying?

Re: Challenging the myth that the rich are specially-talented wealth creators

#60

Post by ommunist »

ams6110 wrote: post #50
ParrotyError wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the example of home rental, making homes available for rent enables families to live in accommodations that they would not be able to purchase. These accommodations are not without cost to the owner: Taxes, utilities, maintenance, security and administration are all associated costs that rent payments offset. What the rentier provides in most cases, is a better quality of life than the family could have if they w…

The answer to this is build more housing. Who or what is preventing that?

The rich will capitalize on that and will create endless waves of constructing and reconstructing 'social housing'. They will become super rich and will form a layer with vested interest in maintaining hundreds of thousands being poor. This is France.
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