Who is building the open-source Slack? Four things are needed: 1. Good support for multiple active clients, including mobile. If I see a message on desktop, I shouldn't get notified on mobile. If I read on one client, when I reconnect on another, it should show me the convo starting where I left off. Etc etc. 2. Eternal history (ideally configurable by users/channels) with decent search. 3. A few basic bells-and-whis…
http://www.mattermost.org/ is doing it
Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
81–90 of 295 posts
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It also didn't make any sense they dropped XMPP in favour of Hangouts. It makes perfect sense. Forcing out competitors (XMPP) with leverage from dominance in a neighboring market (gmail, which was the common interface for GTalk) is a textbook example of monopolization. If we lived in a world that actually cared about the rule of law, Google would be charged for violating the Sherman Antitrust Act (and/or related an…
Wait are you saying that XMPP was forced out (solely) by Google, and that Google at some point monopolized the "instant messenger" market? Not to mention that XMPP is a standard, not a competitor. This is like saying that modern companies are monopolizing against SOAP or YAML.
I didn't say anything about other players in the "chat" market.
> Google at some point monopolized the "instant messenger"
No, the have dominance in the email market (I mentioned gmail). They used the position of power in the email market to limit XMPP and support their new Hangouts service.
Just like Microsoft used to do, Google broke their support of the protocol. While most of the protocol still worked, they started dropping auth requests on the floor. This wasn't an error message or missing feature; their S2S protocol simply dropped auth requests so it looked from the outside that the request was delivered, but the person on the other end never responded. Outgoing (from gmail) auth requests were removed entirely. From the perspective of gmail users, XMPP popularity simply faded and Hangouts took over as a replacement.
Using one market (gmail) as leverage in another market (chat) is basically the definition of monopolization. Note that this doesn't require a perfect monopoly in the first market; ability to force/manipulate the market is sufficient. Additionally, the Sherman Antitrust Act also criminalizes the attempt to monopolize.
> Not to mention that XMPP is a standard
Obviously. I've been following the development from the beginning (before it was called "jabber"; the name "XMPP" happened many years later).
> not a competitor.
An open (federated) protocol is the most dangerous kind of competitor to a big company like Google. Deals/contracts can can be made with a company, but a federated protocol by definition cannot be controlled by a single entity.
> This is like saying that modern companies are monopolizing against SOAP or YAML.
I think you need to re-read what I said. Or maybe read more about how antitrust law works.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#83It's been a while since we've had a decent chat client that we could use for work (no, you would not get designers, marketing and sales to use IRC), and Slack came up at just the right moment to make the rounds, and they know it. You can see it in the enormous marketing push they're making. They want to seal the deal and seal it quick, because, damn, it's not that hard to replicate that platform.
No, Gchat was not Slack before Slack. It was just another chat client that was limited by its auth scope.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#84Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#85We had a clean, functional chat app in Gchat that supported XMPP federation, a reasonably good file transfer protocol (IIRC it could be implemented by others) and a even emoji. When Google dropped XMPP, it was pretty much the death knell for interoperability. Facebook followed suit. I don't get the politics that drives the internal chat product development, but it feels like there's a lot of NIH-related "burn it to t…
Google was in a position to capture the chat market by tying it to an email service that everyone was using - GMail. But it had two problems: 1. Email is an open service that doesn't lock users in meaning people using Yahoo Mail can still communicate with people using GMail (unlike Facebook where the only place to interact with FB users in is FB). 2. Google didn't lock its users in with GChat, so users could drift away to other services while still communicating with GChat users if need be.
Due to its very nature, FB was destined to win the messenger wars; if all your friends are already on FB then most people will default to what's easiest--the chat functionality that's already there and all your contacts are connected to. But since FB tends to be your personal circle rather than work circle, this left the work circle open, which Google could have captured if it hadn't screwed up on Hangouts leaving the door open for Slack.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's where bridging with other services comes in, e.g. using Matrix on your side to talk to contacts on IRC or whatever else without the people on the other side having to change what system or software they use.
Does this require control of the server being bridged to implement, or could I do something like, say, set up an instance that lets me be on both Rizon and Freenode at the same time on one client connection?
I'm not sure how this works for non-public communication, like private messages on IRC or services like Facebook where it wouldn't be safe for the Matrix homeserver to have access to a user's Facebook account.
At this point I'm not super well-versed on the details of application services so hopefully one of the Matrix team members will reply to you directly.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
What, people started using msn instead of gchat because those chats weren't on xmpp? Why would gchat have as many users as facebook anyway? It's not like gmail was a community like facebook was. MSN meanwhile basically started as a chat client, there where ads for it on tv in Sweden...
People on MSN could chat with people on GChat, but people on GChat couldn't chat with people on MSN. Since a critical feature of a messaging app is "my friends are on it", that gave MSN/FB/AIM a huge advantage over GChat, and had they not turned off XMPP integration, they would have bled off users until it was only used by small pockets of people, all of whom were on GChat (eg. Googlers).
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a computer which is always on and always connected. It's my smartphone. Can I just run a 'homeserver' on that and be connected?
Sure. Homeserver software doesn't care where it's hosted. If you want it to federate with other homeservers on the Internet, it will need to be accessible from outside your local network, of course.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really really like the ideas of Matrix, but the problem is none of my friends are on it. I had the same problem when I started to use Signal. WhatsApp actually seems like the lesser of two evils right now - even though it's controlled by Facebook, they've added encryption and some of my friends are on it. Who'd have thought we'd look back on the days of MSN, AIM and ICQ as the golden age of interoperable messaging?…
> I really really like the ideas of Matrix, but the problem is none of my friends are on it. Build a whatsapp bridge for matrix? I mean, it's built for the exact case where people aren't "on" it.
Re: Gchat Was the Future of Messaging, but Google Didn’t Know
#90Who is building the open-source Slack? Four things are needed: 1. Good support for multiple active clients, including mobile. If I see a message on desktop, I shouldn't get notified on mobile. If I read on one client, when I reconnect on another, it should show me the convo starting where I left off. Etc etc. 2. Eternal history (ideally configurable by users/channels) with decent search. 3. A few basic bells-and-whis…
http://www.mattermost.org/ is doing it
https://github.com/mattermost/platform/blob/4ae72ad1a878fdf1...