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An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

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Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#21

Post by hamana »

anonymousab wrote: post #16
hamana wrote: post #7

I have a very different view on this (ready to be downvoted into oblivion). What was done to slaves of homo sapiens species in the recent past is being done today with dogs, cats and many other slaves of different species. Have you seen the ads where 'owners' of creatures who escaped offer financial reward to anyone who finds them? People who are against slavery of members of homo sapiens species show no critical thi…

A runaway domesticated animal may stand a significantly higher risk of injury than its wild brethren. Domesticated animals also so often have a much higher standard of living than in the wild; it is hard to argue that an owned animal is deprived as much as an owned human.

  A runaway domesticated animal may stand a significantly higher risk of injury than its wild brethren.
I'm talking about what's happening before the escape has happened. Why is domestication(slavery) allowed in the first place?

  Domesticated animals also so often have a much higher standard of living than in the wild;
Slaves in USA had higher standard of living than if they had stayed in Africa.

  it is hard to argue that an owned animal is deprived as much as an owned human.
How is a enslaved human more depraved than a horse? They both are under control of their master and get basics to survive. The difference between them is that horse and human are a different species. In terms of deprivation, it's about the same.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#22

Post by hamana »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #18
hamana wrote: post #7

I have a very different view on this (ready to be downvoted into oblivion). What was done to slaves of homo sapiens species in the recent past is being done today with dogs, cats and many other slaves of different species. Have you seen the ads where 'owners' of creatures who escaped offer financial reward to anyone who finds them? People who are against slavery of members of homo sapiens species show no critical thi…

Upvoted for the philosophical discussion, not because I agree.

What do you disagree with?

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#23

Post by mhurron »

Chinjut wrote: post #20
hamana wrote: post #7

I have a very different view on this (ready to be downvoted into oblivion). What was done to slaves of homo sapiens species in the recent past is being done today with dogs, cats and many other slaves of different species. Have you seen the ads where 'owners' of creatures who escaped offer financial reward to anyone who finds them? People who are against slavery of members of homo sapiens species show no critical thi…

It's not exclusively some modern invention to be against slavery. There were people during the era of chattel slavery who thought of slavery as wrong too. Lots and lots of them. Almost 100% of the African-American population, for example...

> Almost 100% of the African-American population

Well, no. Africans (before they were captured and sold to the Dutch slave traders) had slaves. A lot of Africans were sold into slavery by other Africans, the ones they lost tribal wars to. Slavery was very well known in Africa, just as it was everywhere else in the world basically from the moment civilization was created.

Like most things, people were ok with it happening to others and only had an issue when it happened to them.

The idea that all slavery is wrong is a far more modern idea. Unlike the OP I do not present that as a bad thing.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#24

Post by hamana »

mhurron wrote: post #23
Chinjut wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not exclusively some modern invention to be against slavery. There were people during the era of chattel slavery who thought of slavery as wrong too. Lots and lots of them. Almost 100% of the African-American population, for example...

> Almost 100% of the African-American population Well, no. Africans (before they were captured and sold to the Dutch slave traders) had slaves. A lot of Africans were sold into slavery by other Africans, the ones they lost tribal wars to. Slavery was very well known in Africa, just as it was everywhere else in the world basically from the moment civilization was created. Like most things, people were ok with it happe…

Thank you for the answer.

  Like most things, people were ok with it happening to others and only had an issue when it happened to them.
Bravo! People today will say that slaves were in pain and suffering. Their masters knew that.

  The idea that all slavery is wrong is a far more modern idea.
Yes. People today are like those parrots - just repeating what everyone around them believes. It's like a religion. Religion people adopt is heavily influenced by parents and environment, not critical thinking. That's why I wrote people who are against slavery are not critical thinkers and introspective.

  Unlike the OP I do not present that as a bad thing.
I do not think of human slavery as good or bad. I am NEUTRAL about it. I don't think that anything is inherently right or wrong. When people use those terms, they are expressing their personal feeling, not objective feature of the world.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#25

Post by peteretep »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #17
peteretep wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All the scandals in England? > A lot of that was sex slavery. What?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...

Conflating child abuse and the subsequent government cock-up in to investigating it, with an institutionalised implementation of slavery with the full weight of the judiciary behind it, requires quite some imagination.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#26

Post by duncan_bayne »

peteretep wrote: post #25
duncan_bayne wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...

Conflating child abuse and the subsequent government cock-up in to investigating it, with an institutionalised implementation of slavery with the full weight of the judiciary behind it, requires quite some imagination.

Sure; I'm not agreeing with his position, just supplying the background.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#27

Post by monort »

beachy wrote: post #2

I find these pretty disturbing. I like to think I'd never have stood by while someone enslaved someone else. But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable. Wicked times.

Taxes are involuntary and people are locked in prison for not paying them, that is resembling a slavery. Some rationalization for slavery was similar too, e.g. people thought that it's not possible to have prosperity without enslavement.

Probably in the future present times will be seen as wicked too.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#29

Post by hnhire_me »

beachy wrote: post #2

I find these pretty disturbing. I like to think I'd never have stood by while someone enslaved someone else. But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable. Wicked times.

> But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable.

Yeah. Many bad things are commonplace and acceptable until progress marches on unfortunately. The majority has a bad habit of lacking empathy for those more vulnerable than themselves.

Slavery. Equal rights for minorities. Even the War on Drugs or providing access to proper care for women's health has abuses that are largely ignored because most people aren't regularly impacted in ways that motivates them to action.

The system has always been pretty wicked to those powerless to resist it.

Re: An Archive of Fugitive Slave Ads Sheds New Light on Lost Histories

#30

Post by pvg »

monort wrote: post #27
beachy wrote: post #2

I find these pretty disturbing. I like to think I'd never have stood by while someone enslaved someone else. But the banality of these ads makes it all seem quite commonplace and acceptable. Wicked times.

Taxes are involuntary and people are locked in prison for not paying them, that is resembling a slavery. Some rationalization for slavery was similar too, e.g. people thought that it's not possible to have prosperity without enslavement. Probably in the future present times will be seen as wicked too.

Something being involuntary does not make it 'resemble' chattel slavery. It takes a fair bit more than simply not paying your taxes to end up in prison. Your children don't go to prison if you don't pay your taxes.
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