Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#31

Post by danbruc » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:48 PM UTC

lukeschlather wrote: post #25

danbruc wrote: post #21

More advertising seems wasted money to me - pro Monsanto people don't matter, anti Monsanto people will only see it as propaganda. Just label GMOs really obviously and let the people decide. Without any labeling or non-obvious labeling it is hard or impossible to avoid GMOs if you want to - for rational reasons or not - and being wholly against GMOs becomes your only real option. There are of course still a lot of ot…

You can create poisonous food with conventional techniques. The problem with the anti-GMO movement is that they're focusing on gene splicing without worrying about conventional methods. Labeling and testing cultivars is not a bad idea, but simply labeling "GMO" vs. "non-GMO" gives a false sense of security. http://boingboing.net/2013/03/25/the-case-of-the-poison-pota...

I don't see how GMO labeling could make the situation worse, as far as I can tell people are currently not looking at the potatoes in front of them wondering whether they may contain excessive amounts of alkaloids or not. People are buying their groceries according to price, past experiences, looking at the photo on the box and maybe reading the nutritional content. They are already eating a lot of stuff they better avoided and they do so knowingly. If they want to know whether it contains GMOs, tell them.

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#32

Post by roel_v » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #26

Karunamon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a combination of things: 1- the name. Monsanto sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. 2- the whole concept of patenting a life form rubs many the wrong way 3- previous bad behavior, I.e. Agent orange. 4- self-reinforcing bad information That's no excuse for making things up whole cloth,but it at least explains some of it.

To expand on the patent issue, it not only about Monsanto patenting life but also how they go around and enforce it. Rather than selling a product that the farmer can use as they wish, monsanto demands payment for each harvest. Its if like a car manufacturer were to patent some new effective engine but then went to demand a cut each time the customer went and filled up the tank. Its not a deal that feels fair, and it…

You realize you're saying this to an audience of which at least half either works on saas or would like to, right?

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#33

Post by Xeoncross » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #30

aftbit wrote: post #22

I don't understand the anti-labeling group, except perhaps as an obvious lobbying effort by those selling GMO seeds. Giving people accurate information about what they eat seems to be net positive. Most people will buy the cheapest thing, some will buy the non-GMO things. How's that different from today's "organic" labeling?

Before labeling: "Why wouldn't you label it? More information is better!" After labeling: "If GMOs are so safe, then why are they labeled?"

You can't stop people from making presuppositions about life. This is a silly statement since people already question GMO's even without the label. For example: "If Organic is safe, why is it labeled?"

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#34

Post by shanacarp » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:53 PM UTC

Because of the problems of genetic diversity and the lack of public seed, even if chunks of Monsanto research is funded by the public in public research/land grant universities through public grants.

EG:While large chunks of cornell's Ag program does end up with some sorts of patents (I think) - much of the fees associated with the introduction of a new plant are paid directly by the consumer (eg: this grape https://doubleavineyards.com/arandell - new yorkers pay lower royalty fees to grow it). Furthermore, this grape (as an example) is considered public seed. I can, my neighbor can, whoever can, breed it with other grapes, sequence it, eat it, take cutting for creating new vines, whatever.

If Cornell^ decided to partner with Monsanto for Flint Corn, the flint corn may not be released to me to do that (hence the lawsuits, and why Monsanto buys/has huge internal labs on top of partnering with state universities)

The other issue of lack of public seed is the lack of genetic diversity, especially over the long term. One of big reasons why we have GM bananas is we only grow one kind of banana (cavendish). Imagine that applied to wheat, and then a grass disease mutates while Monsanto patents hold. If Monsanto wheat is 80% of wheat in the US, that disease is going to have a field day. Public seed is insurance that tinkers can tinker with genetics, thereby increasing genetic diversity of wheat in the field, tomatoes, what have you.

Right now we bank seed and have started z"heirloom seed" orgs like Seed Savers exchange. GM food theoretically has a place in there, but not if it is seen as a way of creating monoculture instead of tinkerers (which is what has happened)

We'll see if the fields turn

^Cornell does partner with outside organizations for plant breeding purposes.

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#35

Post by unchocked » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:54 PM UTC

danbruc wrote: post #21

More advertising seems wasted money to me - pro Monsanto people don't matter, anti Monsanto people will only see it as propaganda. Just label GMOs really obviously and let the people decide. Without any labeling or non-obvious labeling it is hard or impossible to avoid GMOs if you want to - for rational reasons or not - and being wholly against GMOs becomes your only real option. There are of course still a lot of ot…

The problem with labeling GMO's is that you're taking what ought to be a regulatory issue (is this GMO objectively safe?) and kicking it down I to the team of popular culture (do I the consumer think buying this GMO is safe for me?). Consumers are ill-equipped to make this decision, and if continually confronted by warning labels many will choose to avoid GMO containing foods "just to be safe". When a critical mass of consumers feel this way it will just be a cultural fact that GMO's are "unsafe" and food producers will avoid using them to avoid being seen as purveyors of "unsafe food".

Something similar happened to nuclear power, and we got coal power instead. GMO's enable the intensive agriculture needed to support 7+ billion people with a lower environmental impact than would otherwise be possible, and the technology is still primitive. I don't want it to be stopped in it's tracks by mob psychology.

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#36

Post by pdkl95 » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

crispytx wrote: post #3

Agent Orange.

An entire generation has past. The people current working at Monsanto are not the people involved with Agent Orange. Carrying hatred into a multi-generation blood feud isn't helping anything useful.

If you want be angry at Monsanto, blame them for the things they are currently doing. Their ideas about patents are dangerous, and they learned predatory business practices from Romney (Bain Capital).

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#37

Post by pdkl95 » Sat, May 28, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

cowmix wrote: post #28

OMFGscience wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that there's no scientific reason to be opposed to GMOs. They're perfectly safe to eat and not worse for the environment. The organic lobby has successfully demonized GMOs to the general population, and now they want to have them labeled to scare people away from eating them. Do you really think we should be legally requiring the labeling of something that doesn't actually matter, in response to a succes…

Safe or not, I do not want to buy or support GMO food because I know there's probably a patent behind the seeds that can screw over farmers (and by proxy everyone else).

> probably a patent

Then you want labeling about patents, not "genetic modification".

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#38

Post by deepnet » Sat, May 28, 2016, 7:00 PM UTC

adanto6840 wrote: post #13

deepnet wrote: post #10

Monsanto Canada Inc v Schmeiser[1] is one datum. The Schmeisers lost their heirloom corn they had been growing for generations when a neighbour grew Monsanto corn, which pollinated some of the Schmeiser's plants. Because Monsanto had patented Roundup-ready corn, the Schmeisers lost the right to grow their unpatented family corn as some contained patented DNA. The court ruled 5% contamination was enough to assert IP r…

If you read the linked Wikipedia entry, the first paragraph makes it pretty clear that your re-telling of the story is, at the least, not fully accurate: "The case drew worldwide attention and is widely misunderstood to concern what happens when farmers' fields are accidentally contaminated with patented seed. However by the time the case went to trial, all claims had been dropped that related to patented seed in the…

I have heard this idea the Schmeisers benefited from Monsanto's Roundup-ready and I disagree.

The Schmeisers didn't use Roundup, the Canadian Supreme Court ruled they experienced no benefit from the Monsanto Genes.

For the wider picture this is moot: intentionality was about liability - the contamination lost them their heirloom regardless.

This is of grave concern to Nations as it could well mean in a few generations none of that species can be grown without Monsanto permission and license fees.

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#39

Post by undersuit » Sat, May 28, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #15

The problem is that many people are vehemently against GMO without having a clue. I remember of a famous french actress protesting on TV that people were forced to eat GMO. And saying in disgust "It's disgusting, I don't even want to eat DNA!" On GMO and Monsanto I recommand a recent .net rocks: http://dotnetrocks.com/?show=1298

They don't have a clue? Great maybe you could give me a clue on which french actress you're talking about.

Vague and nebulous anecdotes drive me crazy.

Re: Why Does Everyone Hate Monsanto? (2014)

#40

Post by orangecat » Sat, May 28, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

aftbit wrote: post #22

I don't understand the anti-labeling group, except perhaps as an obvious lobbying effort by those selling GMO seeds. Giving people accurate information about what they eat seems to be net positive. Most people will buy the cheapest thing, some will buy the non-GMO things. How's that different from today's "organic" labeling?

And that's why we should put stickers on science books saying that some people dispute the theory of evolution. That's just truthful information, right?