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Bottled water 'is immoral'

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#21

Post by greendestiny »

bocajuniors wrote: post #12
gruseom wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a little theory about this. When one issue moves into the mainstream, the avant-garde of the self-righteous find a new issue to focus on. They need to, in order to preserve their identity of being distinct from (morally superior to) the masses. It's analogous to music hipsters who immediately discard a band when it becomes popular.

if you cause harm to others, and are aware that you do so, you act immorally.

Everything we do impacts on others, tracking small and arbitrary infractions and calling that morality is a far greater wrong than a less CO2 efficient source of water. Just cap and trade already, I hate these taboo based social manipulations.

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#23

Post by DanielBMarkham »

bocajuniors wrote: post #12
gruseom wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a little theory about this. When one issue moves into the mainstream, the avant-garde of the self-righteous find a new issue to focus on. They need to, in order to preserve their identity of being distinct from (morally superior to) the masses. It's analogous to music hipsters who immediately discard a band when it becomes popular.

if you cause harm to others, and are aware that you do so, you act immorally.

"cause harm to others" is such a loose phrase you could drive a bulldozer through it. It could encompass everything from flatulence to the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

I'd tighten up that language a little bit if you are trying to make a point.

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#24

Post by brlittle »

jamesbritt wrote: post #19

FTFA: 'A BBC Panorama documentary, "Bottled Water: Who Needs It?", to be broadcast tomorrow says that in terms of production, a litre bottle of Evian or Volvic generates up to 600 times more CO2 than a litre of tap water.' And? How much CO2 does a liter of tap water generate, and of all the ways I could reduce C02 generation, where does bottled water fit in? Does the use of bottled water create more C02 than, say, ra…

You know, the questions you're asking are valid. But one might well ask "When there are other sources of clean, potable water available, why is it necessary, or even desirable, to drink water imported all the way from Fiji." Is Fijian water qualitatively that much better than it justifies the relatively monumental effort of transporting it to Manhattan for consumption?

I certainly won't deny that there are trendoids who glom onto this sort of thing as the latest cause célèbre, but to pass it off (as some commenters are doing) as mere trendy moralism or yet another "cause" repugnant to whatever brand of libertarianism is hip this month, is to ignore valid questions about the justice and justifiability of your actions.

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#25

Post by boucher »

Tichy wrote: post #15
hugh wrote: post #2

"Drinking bottled water should be made as unfashionable as smoking, according to a government adviser" Yeah, and I think that telling other people what to do with their lives in order to prevent the emission of miniscule amounts of CO2 should be as unfashionable as smoking too, but hell, what would I know?

If there are externalities, they should be fixed. That is not telling other people what to do with their lives, it is telling them to not steal from others. Not sure why the CO2 aspect doesn't get regulated through the prize of fuel, though.

Because the price of fuel doesn't account for the damage fuel consumptions costs in the long run.

We do very little to assess and monetize the environmental damage corporations cause, especially over the long term.

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#27

Post by boucher »

ckinnan wrote: post #11

Part of the problem is that our socialized, monopoly municipal water suppliers provide unhealthy, bad tasting water.

The United States has excellent drinking water, pretty much everywhere. Issues of taste are usually caused by old pipes on the "last mile" of the water's path. So, buy a Brita filter. That's a market that actually makes sense.

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#29

Post by ivankirigin »

boucher wrote: post #28
ivankirigin wrote: post #22

Bottled water "is portable"

so are reusable water bottles that cost about as much as one bottle of water would have cost.

No, they don't cost nearly as much as a single bottle of water. I buy bottled water in bulk.

I also use a reusable plastic bottle. I don't have it with me all the time.

Bottled water is like SUVs and large homes for upper middle class people. People get irrationally pissed about them and ignore much more important things related to the environment, like single pane windows and other poor insulation. The difference between an SUV and a prius is small compared to the energy lost in a poorly insulated home in New England or Arizona.

[edit: don't forget to account for the energy of washing the reusable bottle. I've heard for a ceramic mug you need to use it 1000 times before it uses less energy than 1000 styrofoam cups]

Re: Bottled water 'is immoral'

#30

Post by brlittle »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #14

Well the way I look at this, we're paying for it right? Supply and demand, people.

Actually, the argument being made is that you're _not_ paying for it. The externalities -- degraded environment, pollution, economic damage, etc. -- are being passed on to the powerless in other countries, or to future generations. In economic jargon (or as much thereof as I remember from college) there are negative externalities which are unaccounted for in the current market price.

I believe one of the arguments being made is also that if those externalities _were_ incorporated into the price, bottled water would be much less appealing on the basis of cost.

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