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Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

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Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#261

Law evolves and the law of copyright in particular is ripe for "disruption" - and I say this not as one who opposes the idea of copyright but, on the contrary, as one who strongly supports it. It is right that the author of a creative work get protection for having conceived that work and reduced it to tangible form. Developers do this all the time with their code. So too do many, many others. Many today disagree wit…

> Many today disagree with this because they grew up in a digital age where copyright was seen as simply an unnecessary impediment to the otherwise limitless and basically cost-free capacity we all have to reproduce digital products in our modern world and hence an impediment to the social good that would come from widespread sharing of such products for free.

As a creator, I agree with the idea of copyright, but as a consumer, I think you missed the core problem with this statement.

I think most people can agree that enforcing copyright is fine: that is, creators should be compensated for their work, if they so choose to be. They should especially be compensated if anyone else is making money from their work.

Let's pick on the music industry in particular, because they are particularly big abusers and also the ones that messed the whole thing up.

One of the places the music industry went wrong was in micro-enforcing exact means of consumption. If they had it their way, I'd have to buy 3 copies of every song if I wanted to be able to listen in my living room, car, and portable device. Oh, and another 3 copies each every time a new format came out (Vinyl -> Cassette -> CD -> every various DRM form of digital). Further, they tried to restrict which devices you were allowed to use ("this DRM only works on stuff from manufacturer X or Y, not Z and definitely not your home-built custom rig").

This is where they really overstepped, in my opinion. And they did this at the same time that the technology for digital music (MP3) was becoming practical, affordable and mainstream. (As in: fast internet, fast CPUs, affordable storage, and many portable music player products)

So what was the result? What would have been an underground and niche world of piracy suddenly was offering for free something that was significantly better than what you got if you paid. Many people even downloaded stuff that they owned on CD, because it was simpler than ripping it. It's not a stretch to simply skip the step of paying for the CD initially. Instead of building something even better and easier than Napster (and others), they declared war on their customers.

It's really not unlike the current climate of ads vs ad blockers: it's hard to feel bad for the advertisers after their methods serve malware, obnoxious and intrusive ads, auto-playing video, popups, etc. Most people could tolerate banner ads, just as most people would have been fine paying for their music, but they took it a step too far and ruined it for the whole industry.

If the music industry had been okay with format shifting and unrestricted (non-DRM'd) playback, instead just concentrating on ensuring that their paying customers could listen to the music they bought however they wanted, the industry would probably look quite different today. Sure, there would have been some piracy (both causal sharing among friends and for-profit counterfeits), but there always has been.

Instead, they attempted to completely erase piracy and extract every cent they could from their paying customers by controlling everything, and didn't care about the collateral damage they were doing specifically to the people trying to give them money. In fact, they want to go even further and put people in jail over it.

So to me, at least, it's not about free-as-in-beer, I'm happy to pay for content. But once I pay, I want to be able to listen to it in the ways I want. Forcing me to use a specific manufacturer's product to be able to listen to the content is as offensive to me as only allowing me to listen to certain types of music based on the color of my skin.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#262
post #233
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You're allowed more than 140 characters because you can tweet more than once. The real time updates were invaluable.

How so? This isn't something where you'll have to decide in a split-second wether to take to the streets in response to this or that development. You could argue that there is some value for stock traders (and tbh, given the result, even for them it's basically the same as it was before), but that's about it. It's just the "breaking news" frenzy applied to social media. Nothing to celebrate, imho.

Sorry but this was an example of how a real time feed on twitter can be informative in a way that a long form piece could not. A summary of the trial would not be the same as the minutiae that she was able to convey. It was done really well. If all you get is long form from New Yorker or Le Monde, you're missing out.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fewer Oracles. Fewer Microsofts. Fewer Steve Jobs. Was it so bad back when you could just buy software for money? Before business models built on eyeballs and data mining instead of copyright?

Like when windows extended Java then started adding incompatibile methods to the windows Java extension that would be on all windows computers? Or maybe when office used a hidden format to store files so no one could share files without buying a license? They were not great times at all...

Was the hold Office format hidden? It was delightfully obtuse and even obfuscated IMO, no doubt about that, but not impenetrable, and you can find the docs describing the file format on Microsoft's site now. Could you not get them 10-15 years ago?

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, the size of the copyright-backed creative industries today, by any reasonable metric I can think of, is vastly greater than the size of the creative industries built around the alternative models that have been tried noticeably often so far. Even assuming that "market size" is the right metric for comparison, that comparison assumes that the existence of copyright law has had no negative effect on those "a…

Numerous readily available examples suggest that it has, however. Would you share some of those examples? I've heard this argument made before, and I agree that undermining alternative models is both logically possible and a plausible concern in practice. However, the only examples anyone has come up with so far have been some form of derivative work with questionable added value. Lacking any more compelling evidence…

YouTube Content ID and equivalent takedowns of content on other services (including false claims, videos shut down because of incidental music, or actual use of content in a transformative way). Remixers/mash-ups. Romhacks/mods/etc. "Abridged series" (of the humorous variety, not literal abridging). Fan works of all kinds. The entire emulation scene. Tools for reading and rescuing content from proprietary file formats. Drivers developed through reverse-engineering to figure out how the hardware works. Projects (both Open Source and proprietary) potentially threatened by the previous ruling on APIs in this exact lawsuit. The old SCO lawsuit and all the time and money it wasted, plus the harm done by the FUD. Any project that has ever had to defend itself over "fair use" in court, whether successful or not.

That was about 5 minutes worth of examples; plenty more where those came from.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#266
post #12

These are the statutory fair use factors the jury was required to consider (17 U.S.C. 107): (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) the nature of the copyrighted work; (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential…

> That makes Oracle's win on the subject matter issue basically a pyrrhic victory for anyone looking to protect their APIs. They're protectable, but can't be protected in any realistic scenario.

Good. The CAFC ruling is indefensible, like most everything else that emanates from that court. If nothing else this ruling strikes me as a workaround for having an appeals court that is bought and paid for by special interests. For copyright and patents, the courts are so heavily stacked in favor of major rightsholders, and so abused by them, that for those who favor copyright reform it's probably well past the time to hope for rightful justice under the law and better to adopt a "victory at any cost" stance, much like our opponents (i.e. Oracle, etc.) already do.

If Google weasels out of liability because of some lame fair use defense that probably "technically" shouldn't pass muster, I can hardly give a damn given how often the law is twisted in the other direction already.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#267
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samba uses NO Windows APIs. Please learn the difference between an API and a network protocol, else you end up looking foolish. https://www.samba.org/ftp/tridge/misc/french_cafe.txt

Please learn the difference between an API and a network protocol, else you end up looking foolish. I don't believe that the distinction is that clear at all . Hence my comment: Unless you are arguing that network protocol compatibility is a different thing? It seems to me that there is a lot of overlap, since Samba relies on re implementing the same behavior as a Windows file server. I think it is pretty easy to arg…

A linearized network protocol is not an API. That distinction is very clear. Read the Microsoft protocol specs. They say nothing about API's used to send/receive the protocol - only how the protocol elements are encoded on the wire.

The API's that Samba uses to access that protocol are nothing like the Windows API calls (and are a completely independent implementation).

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#269
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please learn the difference between an API and a network protocol, else you end up looking foolish. I don't believe that the distinction is that clear at all . Hence my comment: Unless you are arguing that network protocol compatibility is a different thing? It seems to me that there is a lot of overlap, since Samba relies on re implementing the same behavior as a Windows file server. I think it is pretty easy to arg…

A linearized network protocol is not an API. That distinction is very clear. Read the Microsoft protocol specs. They say nothing about API's used to send/receive the protocol - only how the protocol elements are encoded on the wire. The API's that Samba uses to access that protocol are nothing like the Windows API calls (and are a completely independent implementation).

I don't disagree at all!

I'm just pointing out that it isn't at all clear to me that the strong distinction that software people see between APIs and protocols is as clear under law.

Re: Jury in Oracle v. Google finds in Google's favour

#270
post #10

Great news! This is a win for us software devs :) I'd like to note that Ars Technica's coverage of the trial has been excellent throughout.

No it's not. It effectively means I can copy code without respect to the original author's rights, slap a new license on it, and call it a day. As long as it's under the guise of some higher ideal of software development -- which we know from historical accounts this was definitely not the case.
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