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An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

reuters.com

231–240 of 333 posts

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#231

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

I used to teach at a community college which attracted a lot of Chinese students. I found that for the most part they legitimately wanted to learn the subject I was teaching, but that the language barrier was a problem for many. They would sit in the back and the student with the best comprehension would quietly translate for the rest. When it came to assignments, they did their own work as far as I could tell. So when I read reports like the article, I see this more as an indictment of the U.S. university system (as opposed to the CC system) than of Chinese students. My own experience tells me that there are plenty of students who are willing to do the work, so we're deliberately importing students who aren't, and doing so disproportionately into the university system. I see this as symptomatic of the "I'll pretend to teach and you pretend to learn" culture currently strangling undergraduate instruction at R1 universities.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to grad school with a lot of Chinese visa students. It was pretty clear about a week in who was the real deal (absolutely brilliant students) and who had worked the system to get into the school. The ones that had cheated their way in generally were generally just average folks who had taken what they viewed as their best option in a very high pressure and high stakes situation. I'm guessing most of my US rais…

> How universities and colleges can raise tuition an average of 8% a year and get away without doing a minimum of due diligence around cheating is beyond me. Why would they? The students and their parents aren't paying for hard (which includes catching cheaters). They're paying for the degree. If college was harder the perceived ROI* would be less. As far as I can tell colleges are happy if the students keep showing…

I would think they care about diluting their brand. At some point these degrees you say are worthless will mean people stop paying - don't you think?

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not about cheating, but my friend runs a education consulting service in China and he recently got a call from a father saying that his 20 year old daughter was in the USA studying English but found it too difficult. The father wanted to know if my friend could help his daughter transfer to a school in a country speaking easier English, like Australia. He and his daughter apparently thought Australia spoke some sort…

As an Australian, I can confirm that in some parts of the country this is probably true! Seriously, our elocution is nothing short of atrocious: we drop words, use frequent contractions and then just roll everything into one mumbling, rolling wall of noise. Witness "owzigoin?". Known in more respectable locations as "How are you doing?". FWIW I'm just as guilty as the rest.

Surely you can't be serious? I mean, to hear that someone went to Brizzy, had some brekky, and watched some footy on the telly is comprehensible to anyone.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#234
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You admit there is a high rate of cheating but then say it's unfair to call it out. I hope you see the contradiction there.

I said it's unfair to single out and potentially antagonize a group while the problem is more prevalent across many different groups. I don't see any contradiction here. Sorry...

Indeed. The concern is that anyone's successfully cheating, not where they're from.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#235
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How universities and colleges can raise tuition an average of 8% a year and get away without doing a minimum of due diligence around cheating is beyond me. Why would they? The students and their parents aren't paying for hard (which includes catching cheaters). They're paying for the degree. If college was harder the perceived ROI* would be less. As far as I can tell colleges are happy if the students keep showing…

I would think they care about diluting their brand. At some point these degrees you say are worthless will mean people stop paying - don't you think?

Agreed. And this article could just as easily be run with the headline "Schools do almost nothing to stop known cheating" which would make for more bad press.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#236
The real question is how can you make money from this.

Cheating is a part of human nature, and its not very surprising it would happen, especially when the pressure is high at universities. If it wasn't good for survival, it wouldn't happen.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former grad student who has interacted with both the good and the bad of your group, I understand the differences... and regret the unfortunate realities. I remember a Chinese PhD student who could not function in spoken English . Nice guy. Always smiled, bobbed his head, and said "hi", and that was the extent of his verbal vocab. Still don't know how he got into an American graduate school. Really brings the de…

I attended a conference where young Chinese PhD was giving presentation and nobody could understand what he was saying. Finally one of the organizing professors interrupted him and requested that he should speak English. "But I'm speaking English." he replied with desperation in his voice. He knew his stuff and could write and read English well, but it was very hard to understand what he was saying.

I have same problem. :-) But I am developer, so I can just avoid direct contact with customer and always use text for communication.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No free speech. It hurts their educational systems very deeply. They also have a culture of bribing/gifting, from middle school up into the business world and government. It all boils down to the government wanting to hold onto Asian culture, avoid conflict, keep control and save face. They view democracy as America's attempt to insert a US-friendly leader. Democracies are arguably the best peace keepers humanity has…

> Democracies are arguably the best peace keepers humanity has ever seen, You might want to examine that belief, and how you acquired it. Evidence for it in the historical record is not exactly abundant. (Feel free to dig back 25 centuries, and start by looking up how the Athenian democracy went around kicking their neighbors' butts, as told by one of the Athenian generals, a fair-minded bloke. Thucydides' Melian dia…

Didn't Athens fall because their democratic government assigned too little tax money to military? That's what happened in first Polish democracy (XV-XVIII centuries).

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-Chinese students also have those same problems, but they don't cheat like the Chinese. Chinese students cheat because cheating is part of Chinese culture. Go to China and you'll be shocked at how little people care about others in public, or society at large. This is a place where bystanders will watch cars swerve wildly around an open manhole cover over and over, nearly getting in accidents, doing nothing to hel…

> Chinese students cheat because cheating is part of Chinese culture. Go to China and you'll be shocked at how little people care about others in public, or society at large. I am Chinese and I would respectfully disagree that cheating is some part of Chinese culture. The only example you gave was basically the bystander effect in action, which you then ascribe to... cheating somehow? Moral depravity of millions of p…

The culture of cheating and lying in China is so bad that even the government posted economic numbers aren't trusted. I have plenty of very close Chinese friends and they would be the first to admit that the mainland Chinese culture is messed up these days, and the instinct to lie and cheat is prevalent.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#240
Reading some of the comments here makes it clear that we (the global we) have way overvalued the piece of paper that we get upon graduation and have largely ignored the process, habits, & knowledge that said piece of paper once stood for. The problem with all these developing nations & cheating isn't one of moral failing, but the fact that a cred is valued more than what the cred is supposed to stand for. I would argue that this has to do more with the venality of Western universities (and our superior marketing) that it has to do with much else.

We (Westerners) tell the world, and ourselves, all you need is a piece of paper and all will be well. This piece of propaganda plays a larger role than any perceived moral inferiorities among the developing peoples of the world.

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