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Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

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Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#141

Post by yummyfajitas »

aeorgnoieang wrote: post #136
yummyfajitas wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a possible argument but it seems unlikely. If true, then a poor nation like India should have low marriage rates while a super rich one like the US should have high marriage rates. By Indian standards, everyone (including our very poor) is quite wealthy, so why do Indians do such a good job at getting and staying married while we don't? Compare also marriage rates and wealth over time - in the 50's marriage wa…

Two related points: - 'Poverty' is (mostly) relative; as you point out, almost all of the even the poorest in the US are rich in comparison to the poor in other countries; and the poorest in the world today are relatively rich compared to the poor (and even not-poor) in the past. - It is illegal, inconvenient, and low-status to live or try to live, in the US, as the poor in India, or other poorer countries, do; e.g.…

It is illegal, inconvenient, and low-status to live or try to live, in the US, as the poor in India, or other poorer countries, do; e.g. authorities will evict tenants living in illegal housing (and prosecute their landlords), almost no one brings their small children to work with them, building/labor/etc. standards are much more stringent legally (and culturally).

Sure - the net result of this is that American poor people live in larger and much higher quality homes. Wouldn't that reduce stress?

Relative poverty is an odd explanation for a change over time - if you plot a graph of % of population in the bottom 10%, you'll discover it never changes. So how can you use this to explain a change over time?

I suppose one could take a "red pill" style explanation - female hypergamy combined with low perceived status can cause relationship stress. In the past, poor black people were segregated from everyone else. So a poor black man who has a badly paid job and goes to church regularly might be high status within his community. Thus, his wife will perceive him as high status and will not make trouble within the relationship.

Racial and economic integration has then reduced his perceived status, and she causes trouble. The only solution to this I could see is status based segregation - allow everyone to be high status within a narrow community. I don't much like this solution, nor do I see a useful way to force the culture to do this.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#142

Post by yummyfajitas »

sbov wrote: post #138
yummyfajitas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We definitively do NOT have "too many workers". There are millions of jobs out there which are simply not getting done due to lack of a worker willing/able to do them, or due to regulations making the job illegal. https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/robots_didnt_take_ou... We have "not enough jobs" when everyone who wants one has a butler, maid, cook and driver. (Or butlerbot, cleaning bot, autocook 2000 and self…

Not every "job" is a job. I would totally pay someone $0.01 per hour to clean my house each day.

Yes, that's a perfect illustration of labor scarcity. You want work done but it isn't getting done.

Other work that isn't getting done: childcare for working women, fixing our crumbling infrastructure, building new public works - most left wing types have a massive laundry list of jobs that aren't getting done.

Maybe those folks are just full of it and we shouldn't actually tax the rich to get those things done?

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#143

Post by jernfrost »

humanrebar wrote: post #117

Family structure is actually huge when talking about poverty. First, poverty statistics comparing 1950 to today are more complex than they appear since the marriage rate has dropped a lot. There are more single-income households, so the average household income looks different though income might not have changed all that much. Second there is a very strong correlation between marriage rates in neighborhoods and pove…

This is a highly cultural phenomenon those which one can not generalize about. Nordic countries have low level of poverty AND marriage. But Nordic societies are much more accommodating towards such a situation, and so it doesn't cause the significant problems it does in the US. Laws and regulations make it much easier for mothers to have a job and raise kids. In the US the workplace is less accommodating and so many mothers are forced to stay home for years with their kids. This creates an economic disaster if the parents divorce because the mother now has too little work experience to get a good job and there are limited social programs for single mothers.

Secondly a factor is the nature behind the split up. Single parent households does not signal family breakdown in the same manner as it does in the US. Fathers are usually very active participants in their children lives even if they are divorced.

I think the lesson American are trying to push is that people must be married for the benefit of children, while Nordic countries rather push the idea that every father has to take responsibility and engage with their children.

I think one should accept realities of modern societies and find solutions to that rather than dreaming about a 1950s world which is never coming back.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#144

Post by lintiness »

randomdata wrote: post #122
studentrob wrote: post #74

Wow, the author was just recently fired, > On May 20, the progressive public policy organization, Demos, fired Matt Bruenig, a popular writer who covered poverty and inequality. [1] Best of luck to him and hope he finds another position. This article, though, is pseudoscience. It is just statistics slapped together with a desired conclusion drawn at the end. Measuring the causes and effects of societal issues over th…

> It is just statistics slapped together with a desired conclusion drawn at the end. Funnily enough, the same way we concluded that education does fix poverty in the first place.

we concluded education fixes poverty because it was politically obvious and popular -- still is.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#145

Post by dharmach »

jernfrost wrote: post #143
humanrebar wrote: post #117

Family structure is actually huge when talking about poverty. First, poverty statistics comparing 1950 to today are more complex than they appear since the marriage rate has dropped a lot. There are more single-income households, so the average household income looks different though income might not have changed all that much. Second there is a very strong correlation between marriage rates in neighborhoods and pove…

This is a highly cultural phenomenon those which one can not generalize about. Nordic countries have low level of poverty AND marriage. But Nordic societies are much more accommodating towards such a situation, and so it doesn't cause the significant problems it does in the US. Laws and regulations make it much easier for mothers to have a job and raise kids. In the US the workplace is less accommodating and so many…

May be Nordic states are more sympathetic to single mothers because of the declining population. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/06/23...

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#146

Post by mac01021 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #142
sbov wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every "job" is a job. I would totally pay someone $0.01 per hour to clean my house each day.

Yes, that's a perfect illustration of labor scarcity. You want work done but it isn't getting done. Other work that isn't getting done: childcare for working women, fixing our crumbling infrastructure, building new public works - most left wing types have a massive laundry list of jobs that aren't getting done. Maybe those folks are just full of it and we shouldn't actually tax the rich to get those things done?

You normally write very clearly, but I have no idea what you're getting at with this particular comment.

Is any of this sarcasm? Are you sincerely suggesting that not being able to find someone to work for 1 cent per hour means that there is a labor scarcity?

What's this business about public funding of municipal infrastructure and how does it relate to the conversation at hand?

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#147

Post by tokensimian »

rhapsodic wrote: post #129
EliRivers wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we abandon the idea that the purpose of people is to serve the economy. This will be a very difficult change to make.

> Or we abandon the idea that the purpose of people is to serve the economy. I don't know who believes that the purpose of people is to serve the economy. However I believe that, where no actual disabilities exist, family units should be self-supporting and should also share in the burden of maintaining a free, just and civilized society.

It's a common way of expressing teh question, does the population serve the economy, or does the economy serve the population?

Put another way, should countries protect workers or owners?

(A false dichotomy, of course, and an oversimplification to boot.)

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#148

Post by dragonwriter »

mac01021 wrote: post #146
yummyfajitas wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's a perfect illustration of labor scarcity. You want work done but it isn't getting done. Other work that isn't getting done: childcare for working women, fixing our crumbling infrastructure, building new public works - most left wing types have a massive laundry list of jobs that aren't getting done. Maybe those folks are just full of it and we shouldn't actually tax the rich to get those things done?

You normally write very clearly, but I have no idea what you're getting at with this particular comment. Is any of this sarcasm? Are you sincerely suggesting that not being able to find someone to work for 1 cent per hour means that there is a labor scarcity? What's this business about public funding of municipal infrastructure and how does it relate to the conversation at hand?

Scarcity means that a resource is limited and has an opportunity cost, so, yes, of there is any minimum cost, the resources is scarce.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#149

Post by [deleted] »

humanrebar wrote: post #117

Family structure is actually huge when talking about poverty. First, poverty statistics comparing 1950 to today are more complex than they appear since the marriage rate has dropped a lot. There are more single-income households, so the average household income looks different though income might not have changed all that much. Second there is a very strong correlation between marriage rates in neighborhoods and pove…

[deleted]

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#150

Post by novaleaf »

humanrebar wrote: post #117

Family structure is actually huge when talking about poverty. First, poverty statistics comparing 1950 to today are more complex than they appear since the marriage rate has dropped a lot. There are more single-income households, so the average household income looks different though income might not have changed all that much. Second there is a very strong correlation between marriage rates in neighborhoods and pove…

Family structure yes, but I think more about having a social safety net. If your car breaks down, who can give you a ride to work and whatnot.
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