Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not taking dig on Manning, but activists. Gender is irrelevant, what matters is 10 versus 35 years. And you proved my point.
Gender's not quite irrelevant - I'm reasonably certain Chelsea is happy that she gets the medication she needs (as she has written), and that in general, people accept her transition at this point. Humane treatment is a thing that's important, and for trans people, humane treatment partially involves treating them as the gender they are. Personally, I have no skin in this game, but I have a suspicion that the people…
Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
51–60 of 179 posts
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Haven't forgotten. After reading this I'd like to write Chelsea. I'm also inspired to do more anti-prison and anti-solitary activism. This looks like a very touching book on solitary confinement - (Hell is a Very Small Place) http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Very-Small-Place-Confinement/dp/1...
Just a quick note that the solitary can also be a way to prevent a certain prisoner (like Manning) from being torn to pieces by the general prison population. Considering that Manning is in a military prison and is very unpopular amongst the military folks, and transgender to boot, it wouldn't surprise me if solitary is in Manning's best interests.
So, no, I don't want her to sit at constant risk of physical/sexual assault or worse... but I know years of solitary confinement would permanently fuck with me in an extreme way, so I can't condone it in any fashion.
What to do?!?
Edit: in her own words, the torture of prolonged solitary confinement: http://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2016/may/02/s...
Edit 2: "Shortly after arriving at a makeshift military jail, at Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, in May 2010, I was placed into the black hole of solitary confinement for the first time. Within two weeks, I was contemplating suicide." <- So, I'm guessing maybe I'm not that far off in assuming I'd end up the same way.
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#53> I will be Chelsea’s first visitor since her sister in November. > I bring up her recent appeal to reduce her sentence from 35 years to 10 years, and she seems worried that it didn’t receive enough coverage in the press. She hopes that the world hasn’t forgotten about her. I am afraid world has already forgotten. Google search for "site:news.ycombinator.com Chelsea Manning" for past month gives three results includi…
The correct pronoun is 'her', not 'him/her', and a lot of trans activists and allies do spend an inordinate amount (which wouldn't be so necessary if people made even a small effort to get them correct) of time correcting people on pronouns, but there is a lot of work that transgender rights activists are doing for people in prison in general, and I do know that they've been involved with some of the work to help ens…
What you're saying is people's genders are now up for debate but the pronouns are not?
Completely illogical.
And somehow people still believe the "slippery slope" is a fallacy.
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gender's not quite irrelevant - I'm reasonably certain Chelsea is happy that she gets the medication she needs (as she has written), and that in general, people accept her transition at this point. Humane treatment is a thing that's important, and for trans people, humane treatment partially involves treating them as the gender they are. Personally, I have no skin in this game, but I have a suspicion that the people…
Fact of the matter is that Manning was born with a Y chromosome and a penis. Mental illness aside, he's still a man, albeit one who has chosen to mutilate himself. I don't really care what he decides to do with himself - although I smart a little bit that taxpayer money funded his gender vision quest.
Gender dysphoria definitely qualifies, but what I think you're failing to appreciate is that the best treatment for that illness, according to the current scientific consensus, is gender reassignment.
Your shaming of Manning for undergoing treatment for their medical condition makes just as much sense as shaming someone who undergoes any other medical procedure to correct something wrong with them.
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a quick note that the solitary can also be a way to prevent a certain prisoner (like Manning) from being torn to pieces by the general prison population. Considering that Manning is in a military prison and is very unpopular amongst the military folks, and transgender to boot, it wouldn't surprise me if solitary is in Manning's best interests.
I take issue with this, but I don't have a better solution. Being at risk of attack from other inmates is better/worse than the terrifying reality of years of solitary confinement? Solitary confinement is probably up there among my worst nightmares. Evolutionarily, people are simply not meant to be alone with their thoughts for years - especially while simultaneously being kept in a confined space. I have no doubt I…
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#56When you get a clearance, and often even when just working with confidential documents, the DoD has you sign an SF312, which is a classified information non-disclosure.
When you join the military, one of your first acts is to be sworn in, and you swear an oath, "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. That I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Now let me say this as clearly as possible:
The Constitutional oath outranks the NDA. Period. If in doubt, the oath wins, every single time.
That being said though, there is more room for nuance in the stories, primarily due to what kind of information is revealed, what it's intended purpose was, and who is was distributed to.
In my opinion Snowden was more aware of this than Manning, because he did due diligence to review the documents before sharing them, and then making sure to limit damaging information that was actually vital to actual national security, and was very specific with the organizations he shared the information with about these requirements.
Manning did a huge document dump, which I think was well intentioned and had the right reasons behind it, but he didn't think it through in detail enough or take the time to redact the information.
So even if the constitutional oath outweighs the SF312 NDA, it's still breaking the law, but we need to draw very clear distinctions between breaking an NDA and the too oft-cited charges of "treason", which by definition is aiding and abetting the enemy during times of war.
I would also like to point out the hypocrisy of the establishment when it comes to classified leaking, because people in the White House and on the Hill leak all kinds of classified material whenever it happens to be expedient to them politically. A good example of this is the Cheney leak that outed Valerie Plame. Where are the cries about treason against Cheney? (whom I personally think is demonstratively more of a traitor than any of the aforementioned names...)
To me, one of the primary problems DoD faces these days is that there is little to no punishment for being openly unconstitutional, and people have not only forgotten their oaths and their importance, but have failed to call out others who have acted against theirs. To me, an oath still means something, but I want to know... if I could prove someone broke their oath with knowledge, what is the legal punishment offered?
Whatever it is, that is what we need to be doing against those in positions of power who spend more effort undermining the constitution than defending it. (and personally, I think the true enemies of the constitution wear business suits and ties, not thwabs...looking at you wallstreet)
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The correct pronoun is 'her', not 'him/her' No, the correct pronoun is 'him.' Chelsea Manning, despite his self-perception and despite his name change, is and always will be a man. Gender is an objective, physical, biological fact, not a subjective experience. There are people who believe that they are disfigured even though they are perfectly normal looking; they are not disfigured, even though they believe so. Th…
I understand what you are saying--your comment will be out of sight soon, by the way--but, does it hurts to "humour" someone? What do you lose or win? Why not just be nice to others?
So, for the record, wtbob:
> Gender is an objective, physical, biological fact, not a subjective experience.
You are wrong about this. It is both a biological circumstance (though not nearly as crisp a dichotomy as most people think) and a subjective experience, and some people have a mismatch between their biology and their subjective experience. It is simple human decency to defer to how someone chooses to self-identify even if it does not conform to your prejudices about how the world ought to be.
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gender's not quite irrelevant - I'm reasonably certain Chelsea is happy that she gets the medication she needs (as she has written), and that in general, people accept her transition at this point. Humane treatment is a thing that's important, and for trans people, humane treatment partially involves treating them as the gender they are. Personally, I have no skin in this game, but I have a suspicion that the people…
Her medication doesn't change her biological makeup, science isn't that good yet. I'm happy to call anyone what they want, but surgery and drugs do not recreate your sex.
That's the long and the short of it.
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
CHELSEA E. MANNING 89289 1300 NORTH WAREHOUSE ROAD FORT LEAVENWORTH, KANSAS 66027-2304 --- Found that by following a link. https://www.chelseamanning.org/learn-more/write-to-chelsea-m... Make sure to follow the on-page instructions or your correspondence will be rejected/returned. The conditions are quite strict. They check for obscenities which is hilarious -- assuming movies like Full Metal Jacket are an accurate d…
FWIW, Chelsea reads every single letter she receives unless it's illegible. Mail is much appreciated. -yan (author of blog post)
Re: Visiting Chelsea Manning in prison
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
She was more famous under "Bradley" before she came out as trans. Maybe that rings a bell?
Unfortunately you are pointing directly at a major reason why the world forgot about Bradley Manning the war crimes exposer: she changed her name to Chelsea Manning and the media story changed to transgenderism / trans rights. So, basically the media story and the name changed / got more complex, and a lot of people got left behind / quit caring.