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An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

reuters.com

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Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#221

Post by [deleted] »

ngoldbaum wrote: post #111
nilkn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd come in and the entire rest of the class would be sitting around sharing their homework answers, copying each other on the ones they couldn't figure out, getting help from each other... This is actually one of the reasons I frequently avoided study groups for many of my math classes in college. There was too much of an emphasis on just getting the answers from each other, which meant you might get a decent scor…

That sounds like a bad experience with that study group. I found I wasn't really successful as an undergrad until I started to do problem sets with other students. It also really helped to explain problems to others - you don't really understand something until you can explain it to someone else.

[deleted]

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#222

Post by tdaltonc »

vibrato wrote: post #118
whatshisface wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question" What happens when you stop taking it? We frown upon doping in school for the same reason we frown upon it in sports. It creates an environment where people are forced to deal with the side effects to compete, or receive a lower grade. Employers will expect that you continue your performance outside of school. If you stop doping aft…

what correlation between GPA and performance? Has one ever been found? Google has not found one. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-google-hires-people-2013-...

> Even for new grads, the correlation is slight, the company has found.

Small_correlation != no_correlation

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#223

Post by logfromblammo »

jdavis703 wrote: post #68
s_baby wrote: post #27

The international students have unreasonably high standards for maintaining financial assistance and staying out of academic probation(3.5-3.8 at my university). By design college courses give work just a little beyond what a student can reasonably accomplish(with a "good" grade) and curve accordingly. These kids aren't just cheating they are marginalizing students who are honest or don't have this kind of social acc…

A 3.5 is easy. I got a a 3.82 at my school of engineering, while working, and commuting for about 4 hours per day. I didn't really even try that hard in school.

I bet if you really tried, you could have shaved that commute down a little.~

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#224

Post by jchiu1106 »

e40 wrote: post #210
jchiu1106 wrote: post #133

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

You admit there is a high rate of cheating but then say it's unfair to call it out. I hope you see the contradiction there.

I said it's unfair to single out and potentially antagonize a group while the problem is more prevalent across many different groups. I don't see any contradiction here. Sorry...

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#225

Post by new_hackers »

mrep wrote: post #150
tdeck wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These types of discussions always depress me. You'd think from reading them that everyone has cheated or popped some Adderall at some point, and it's a normal part of college. Is that really true? I never have, unless you count making up excuses for turning in the occasional thing late. I worked hard in school and got decent but not amazing grades (3.7 something). When I hear this shit it makes me feel like I was pla…

Don't feel bad. Cheating is like taking on technical debt. It's a short term reward, but it usually comes back to haunt you. After graduating, their employer will learn that they aren't nearly as good as their resume said they were and with your greater knowledge and word ethic, you'll probably come out ahead.

Yup, that's what I've seen. I have an engineering degree and it is was a common understanding that the cheaters were the guys and gals that ended up being technical reps, while the hard workers ended up doing the exciting work. It only takes 1-2 years in the work force to see who has got the chops and who doesn't.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#226

Post by cels »

When I began graduate school, it was very surprising to me to see how the Chinese kids all cheated together as a matter of course and the Indian kids all cheated together as a matter of course. Some of the Americans would cheat somewhat, but furtively, rather than just being an ingrained part of culture.

(with the exception of one top Indian student who had no need for cheating whatsoever)

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#227

Post by auggierose »

That doesn't only apply to the Chinese. A German friend of mine faked his transcripts to do an MBA in California. As long as he paid the 25K in tuition fees, nobody cared to take a closer look. He did well, got his MBA, and lived happily ever after.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#228

Post by Tyr42 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #208
whamlastxmas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I valued my degree's paper more than the content. The content was largely bullshit. Who needs to learn astronomy for a business degree? Employers don't give a shit if I know about astronomy, why should I care? It's required, however, so I took it. I did the minimum to get a 4.0 and nothing more. I think space is interesting and I read about it in my free time, but memorizing facts and figures about random things isn'…

Wait what, you had to take astronomy in uni to get a business degree? Could you elaborate, maybe point me to the program? I've never heard of anything like this. (although I do know other ridiculous examples, don't laugh but I know people who had PE in a uni business degree. team building competencies and all that crap haha)

There is a requirement of 10 non-math faculty classes (out of 40 classes) to get a degree in Math here. It's not that uncommon I think.

Re: An industry that helps Chinese cheat their way into and through US colleges

#229

Post by eitally »

tallanvor wrote: post #192
jchiu1106 wrote: post #133

As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it…

You're 100% correct that it's not a Chinese-only problem. But I don't think the media is focusing on Chinese students because they're Chinese, but because the businesses that specifically advertise to and help Chinese students are being exposed.

And it's not like the media hasn't covered the other major cheating culture: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31998343

I'm not sure if identical services exist for Indian students in American universities, but my anecdotal experience in engineering grad school in the US was that Indian & Chinese students both study & cheat in blocs ... which totally sucked for the 5-of-60 American students in the cohort.

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