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Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

demos.org

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Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#71
post #68
post #57

The analysis neglects one major point: a lot of people got degrees in the humanities and arts: dual majors in English literature and history, or sociology and psychology... what are you going to engineer with that? Engineering requires physics, mathematics, molecular biology, chemistry, material science, higher logic and cognitive capacity... English literature won't help too much with finding a new tensile strength…

I've always thought the smartest people study humanities, and this post just confirmed how dumb the engineering mindset can be.

Perhaps that is true. Humanities & arts majors have very high social intelligence, which often lands them into management positions, but then both they and the company start suffering from the Peter's principle, and the results have been devastating throughout history of mankind, as good networking and personal skills are woefully inadequate at solving hard problems which require lots of knowledge, creativity and logic.

Those who do not study history, and do not learn from it (as is ironically often the case with history majors) are doomed to repeat it, and re-invent it, poorly.

Still, engineering mindset aside, how do you explain that so many people with college degrees are poor, while the engineers don't feel that pain?

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#72
In my observation Education isn't the main/only criteria for getting a job. Skills get you a job. But education and good academics help you to qualify for the interview. If in the interview you can prove that you have the skills to perform the job, most likely you will get the job.

The problem is traditional education is focused on theoretical knowledge and doesn't stress enough on practical skills. Unfortunately in India there are many Computer Science engineering students who after 4 years for Computer Science education, fail to write a simple Frequency Counter in a programming language of their choice. This shows that something in the education system is not right. The colleges are producing engineers by hundreds of thousands every year, but the overall quality of education these guys have received is so poor that most of them are not employable.

I know about computer science because I work in this field. However I think more or less the situation is the same in other fields.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#73
If there is a market for the education you received, it should. If the job market conditions change, it might not unless the person is resourceful.

Also note that the OP is talking about the US but education is often really the key for developing countries to attain a higher level of prosperity. Because the market is still quite open there.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#74
Wow, the author was just recently fired,

> On May 20, the progressive public policy organization, Demos, fired Matt Bruenig, a popular writer who covered poverty and inequality. [1]

Best of luck to him and hope he finds another position.

This article, though, is pseudoscience. It is just statistics slapped together with a desired conclusion drawn at the end.

Measuring the causes and effects of societal issues over the span of 25 years should be done by sociology PhDs, not political bloggers.

[1] http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/25/bruenig-firing-...

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#75
post #2

I don't really have the time, energy, or knowledge to create a fully cited refutation of the author other than to say that this just seems really wrong. It might not be technically wrong because the author seems to be citing facts and I'm sure they're correct. But it seems wrong in the sense that they're missing the forest for the trees. Between 1991 and 2014 a lot has changed, particularly in the earning power of th…

> It might not be technically wrong because the author seems to be citing facts and I'm sure they're correct

You were on the right track in your first sentence.

The author is not an academic publishing a paper. He's a political blogger drawing conclusions he wants from handpicked data. This post was not reviewed by anyone and should not be regarded as fact simply because some data was included.

In fact, the author was fired from this blog a few days ago [1], which makes the appearance of this post on HN today even stranger

[1] http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/25/bruenig-firing-...

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#76
post #2

I don't really have the time, energy, or knowledge to create a fully cited refutation of the author other than to say that this just seems really wrong. It might not be technically wrong because the author seems to be citing facts and I'm sure they're correct. But it seems wrong in the sense that they're missing the forest for the trees. Between 1991 and 2014 a lot has changed, particularly in the earning power of th…

>Between 1991 and 2014 a lot has changed, particularly in the earning power of the generation being cited as being more educated. This is probably has very little to do with their education, more like it's kind of a macroeconomic ... situation ... they were born in to. I suspect that's the point. That the reasoning "people with degrees aren't poor, so let's just give everyone a degree" wouldn't result in eliminating…

sure, we all ride the ebb and flow of the economy, but if we were talking about developing countries or even historically impoverished communities in the US i suspect it would be harder to make the argument that education doesn't help.

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#77
post #71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought the smartest people study humanities, and this post just confirmed how dumb the engineering mindset can be.

Perhaps that is true. Humanities & arts majors have very high social intelligence, which often lands them into management positions, but then both they and the company start suffering from the Peter's principle, and the results have been devastating throughout history of mankind, as good networking and personal skills are woefully inadequate at solving hard problems which require lots of knowledge, creativity and log…

smart != saleable skills

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#78
Because education just removes one obstacle -- there are many:

1) parental encouragement for development and time spent with the child (depending on income too, e.g. single parent working deadly shifts),

2) family atmosphere (economic pressure leads to lots of things, depression, violence, etc).

3) connections

4) security (if you start studying/working paycheck to paycheck, you might not get to a point to be able to take more risk because you have no cushion money)

5) actual security (your neighborhood, city district, etc might not be the most safe/encouraging/etc growing up).

6) lack of role models (close to you, not some people on the media)

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#79
So can one assess this is a racial problem after all?

For years, liberals tell us the high poverty of negroes and hispanics was due to lack of education. If it's not education, what is it then? And why are Asian-Americans not facing the same issues?

I suspect it's a racial identity issue. The best way to understand this point is looking at the mainstream media and how the different races are portraied. Only an idiot would ignore this influence on people, especially because the USA are by far the biggest TV consumers.

If you start judging me for asking these questions or downvote me without giving a reason, you should be ashamed of yourself. Reasons for downvoting are welcome though, so keep them coming! :)

Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)

#80
post #71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always thought the smartest people study humanities, and this post just confirmed how dumb the engineering mindset can be.

Perhaps that is true. Humanities & arts majors have very high social intelligence, which often lands them into management positions, but then both they and the company start suffering from the Peter's principle, and the results have been devastating throughout history of mankind, as good networking and personal skills are woefully inadequate at solving hard problems which require lots of knowledge, creativity and log…

The vast majority of challenges organisations face are wedded in how they interact with society. If a groups not working well together, is it knowledge and creativity that's the problem, or social and value clashes between members. The vast majority of day-to-day management challenges fall into the latter category, so no wonder management attracts people that are interested in "social intelligence" and we tend to be interested in what we're perceived to be good at.

Having studied both in arts and sciences I would say that both approaches have advantages when applied in the real-world, and limitations. I don't believe (or know of any evidence) that "Arts" people are more likely to suffer the Peter principle. It's a function of seniority that you lose information versus specialists in an area - so if anything it's connected with bombastically believing you're right rather than what degree you did.

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