It will more likely be (state subsidized?) embryo selection for the genetic markers of intelligence (see, e.g., https://www.gwern.net/Embryo%20selection), not work on proxies like education, that will substantially reduce poverty. While this solution is outside the Overton window in America today, that will change as the benefits become more visible.
Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
61–70 of 196 posts
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#62Well, yeah. Education increases individual income primarily through competitive advantage in the job market, right? But, also, the function of education in the job market is largely just as a certification arms race, right? Just a ritual we go through to compete for jobs that don’t actually make any use of or require our advanced educations, in most cases. So educating us all doesn’t produce many benefits, because th…
I don't think it's a commonly accepted conclusion that education increases income primarily through competitive advantage (i.e. it's a zero sum game). Take, for example, being educated on home farming methods to grow 200 cabbages a year instead of 100. In this case your income grows directly as a result of your education. Now yes there are some cases that may be signaling, but I'd like to see some empirical evidence…
The farmer from your example benefits both himself and the society because he'll be richer and create more jobs.
The article was concerned about the fact the growth rate of job creation is less than the growth rate of schooled people.
This according to the article is the formula for increased poverty rates.
An educational system that increases job makers - not job hunters, is the cure for poverty.
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#63Well, yeah. Education increases individual income primarily through competitive advantage in the job market, right? But, also, the function of education in the job market is largely just as a certification arms race, right? Just a ritual we go through to compete for jobs that don’t actually make any use of or require our advanced educations, in most cases. So educating us all doesn’t produce many benefits, because th…
i haven't read the article but you are discussing education as it stands today and not what education should be in the ideal sense. education shouldn't be about the bullshit standardization and paper seeking that it has become. instead, it should be what education is all about: intellectual and skilled growth. if we truly educated people, this would help becuase it creates the skills necessary to adapt to and change…
"Learn woodwork; metalwork; they will not make you a carpenter or a blacksmith any more than mastering writing will make you a clerk"
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#64The analysis neglects one major point: a lot of people got degrees in the humanities and arts: dual majors in English literature and history, or sociology and psychology... what are you going to engineer with that? Engineering requires physics, mathematics, molecular biology, chemistry, material science, higher logic and cognitive capacity... English literature won't help too much with finding a new tensile strength…
So if every "social science" major (and why not add business and law students) instead studied engineering, they'd all find jobs? I'm not even asking about well-paid jobs. Is there a shortage of engineers on the market now ? Would more engineers magically lead to more jobs (supply-side economics works so well... oh no!)? What's the difference between " anyone can be rich" and " everyone can be rich"? Because this is…
Of course not; hardcore, laissez faire capitalism like there is in the United States would correct that, and the salaries would go down. However, as it stands, there is an overabundance of humanities & arts majors, and way too little engineers and scientists; meanwhile, the industry has been almost completely off-shored over the last 60 years. The only thing left for those people to do is work in the service industry, if they are lucky. But when too many compete for a limited resource, selection kicks in, and overabundance drops the wages. Education won't help with that, as we see, but it might help with organizing oneself, or "going at it on one's own" and opening a business.
A good lesson to learn from that would be that hard core, laissez faire capitalism is just as destructive as a totalitarian communist system. In order for the population to be able to live comfortably, capitalism must be enhanced with socialist safeguards and a system of checks and balances built in, like Sweden, Austria, Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland did it. Switzerland for example has low taxes and respects private property, and especially protects and fosters enterpreneurship, making it very corporate friendly, but it also has a very strong welfare safety net. One would think that would make a lot of Swiss draw on unemployment and disability, but Swiss work 42 hours per week minimum (compare and contrast to France, where they work 35 to 37), and unemployment in Switzerland is among the lowest in the world.
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#65In technology, programming work is about looking up, composing, and debugging code. I yet have to meet one person who learned it at school.
In the school environment, the emphasis is, has always been, and will always be, to repeat things from memory.
If the IT teacher were good at looking up, composing, and debugging, and given the kind of salaries you that get when you are good at that, he would not be teaching. He would seek to multiply his income often ten times by actually doing it, instead of teaching it.
In fact, you can only learn from people who are doing it themselves. Everybody else does not really know how to do it.
Therefore, the teacher is only good at what will give you beautiful credentials: repeating from memory. That is also what he will seek to perpetuate with his own students.
Formal education does not only NOT fix poverty. Formal education actively creates it. Instead of spending your formative years learning the skill that will make you gain income, you learn to repeat from memory. There is not one industry where this would be of value.
You need to be able to produce things of value, just to survive. It is exceedingly dangerous to spend all your time on things that will never produce any value at all.
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if every "social science" major (and why not add business and law students) instead studied engineering, they'd all find jobs? I'm not even asking about well-paid jobs. Is there a shortage of engineers on the market now ? Would more engineers magically lead to more jobs (supply-side economics works so well... oh no!)? What's the difference between " anyone can be rich" and " everyone can be rich"? Because this is…
Of course not; hardcore, laissez faire capitalism like there is in the United States would correct that, and the salaries would go down. However, as it stands, there is an overabundance of humanities & arts majors, and way too little engineers and scientists; meanwhile, the industry has been almost completely off-shored over the last 60 years. The only thing left for those people to do is work in the service industry…
"According to the National Center for Education Statistics, humanities majors account for about 12 percent of recent graduates, and art history majors are so rare they’re lost in the noise. They account for less than 0.2 percent of working adults with college degrees, a number that is probably about right for recent graduates, too. Yet somehow art history has become the go-to example for people bemoaning the state of higher education."
From http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2012-01-06/postrel-ho.... See also https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/stem-still-no-shortage-c6f6eed505....
(Yes, I get that you're not talking about art history majors, per se, but I still think the sentiment is such that these are apt discussions to link to)
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#67The analysis neglects one major point: a lot of people got degrees in the humanities and arts: dual majors in English literature and history, or sociology and psychology... what are you going to engineer with that? Engineering requires physics, mathematics, molecular biology, chemistry, material science, higher logic and cognitive capacity... English literature won't help too much with finding a new tensile strength…
there are far more jobs that require non-engineering skills than those that do. lawyer, manager, masseuse, interior decorator, barista, ceo, journalist, teacher, non-profit grant writer, truck driver, events planner, politician, secretary, banker, chef, farmer, firefighter, fashion designer, etc. etc. etc. the demand for service sector jobs is steadily rising, as well, as people get more disposable income and more production is off-shored.
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#68The analysis neglects one major point: a lot of people got degrees in the humanities and arts: dual majors in English literature and history, or sociology and psychology... what are you going to engineer with that? Engineering requires physics, mathematics, molecular biology, chemistry, material science, higher logic and cognitive capacity... English literature won't help too much with finding a new tensile strength…
I've always thought the smartest people study humanities, and this post just confirmed how dumb the engineering mindset can be.
Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
So if every "social science" major (and why not add business and law students) instead studied engineering, they'd all find jobs? I'm not even asking about well-paid jobs. Is there a shortage of engineers on the market now ? Would more engineers magically lead to more jobs (supply-side economics works so well... oh no!)? What's the difference between " anyone can be rich" and " everyone can be rich"? Because this is…
Of course not; hardcore, laissez faire capitalism like there is in the United States would correct that, and the salaries would go down. However, as it stands, there is an overabundance of humanities & arts majors, and way too little engineers and scientists; meanwhile, the industry has been almost completely off-shored over the last 60 years. The only thing left for those people to do is work in the service industry…
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Re: Why Education Does Not Fix Poverty (2015)
#70I wonder how much technology has to do with this. A lot of jobs that existed a few years ago don't any more, and the wealth/time saved isn't going back to the people; work hours are not shorter, and low-end jobs aren't better paid.
I would guess not a trivial amount. Which is sad. Keeping people employed is much more important in the grand scheme of things than whatever percentage efficiency gain some of this tech brings.