Housing in the Bay Area • Hacker News Board

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#221

Post by dmode » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:08 AM UTC

galdosdi wrote: post #205

s3r3nity wrote: post #38

This is one of the top factors preventing me from moving back to the Bay Area. It's good to know there's at least SOME serious attempt at a solution (even if folks around here are mostly pessimistic.) It still surprises me that an industry that's all about connecting the world through the internet and allowing anyone to work with anyone else on anything says "yeah but you need to work in this small area of the countr…

I think NYC is already there. It's so easy to find a tech job in NYC. Maybe it's even easier in SV, but I've never missed not being in SV. There's such a variety here. Plenty of startups, all the tech giants, and plenty of tech/IT jobs at "regular" companies, consulting opportunities, etc... And it's not _just_ tech -- plenty of other industries are headquartered in NYC. By contrast I can't think of any other industr…

NYC is far far far way from overtaking SV as the capital of tech industry. The combined value of just Google, Apple, and Facebook is $1.3 trillion dollars. To reach that scale will take many many years and some incredible companies. Honestly, places that can put in a serious competition to SV are in Asia - China and India. Chinese tech companies are raising massive rounds, with multiple billion dollar investments in 2016. Also, most successful hubs are often one industry towns. Think Detroit and Houston. That's how clusters are formed and they have a self full-filing effect. But it is also a mistake to think SV is just a "tech" hub. Is Tesla a tech company ? Or is Sunrun a tech company ? Are Impossible Foods or Bolt Threads tech companies ? Technology is now integral to any industry. And increasingly we are seeing R&D shops being set-up in the valley to stay ahead of the game

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#222

Post by joeskyyy » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:09 AM UTC

s3r3nity wrote: post #214

nostrebored wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow the city with the highest average salary/cost of living usually goes unmentioned... Seattle has two huge tech companies, a lot of mid sized tech companies, and a growing startup scene... and it's not that far away from the bay.

I LOVE Seattle! Though research and folks I talk to say it's expensive to live there. Maybe I'm getting the wrong info!

All depends on where you live. If you're trying to raise a family, you definitely have to live in the burbs and commute in.

I pay $1850 a month for a 496 sq ft "Open" one bedroom. It's basically a studio with a wall that segments off my bedroom.

Which is more than fine for me :D Get to live downtown, get to walk to work, walk to bars, etc. But if you wanted an average 3br/2ba apartment, you're probably looking in the $3500+/mo. And buying is so competitive right now it's insane.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#223

Post by dmode » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:10 AM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #93

s3r3nity wrote: post #38

This is one of the top factors preventing me from moving back to the Bay Area. It's good to know there's at least SOME serious attempt at a solution (even if folks around here are mostly pessimistic.) It still surprises me that an industry that's all about connecting the world through the internet and allowing anyone to work with anyone else on anything says "yeah but you need to work in this small area of the countr…

Somehow the city with the highest average salary/cost of living usually goes unmentioned... Seattle has two huge tech companies, a lot of mid sized tech companies, and a growing startup scene... and it's not that far away from the bay.

Seattle is not that cheap. Decent houses in good suburbs easily approach a million dollars.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#224

Post by calbear81 » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:12 AM UTC

jevinskie wrote: post #160

There is so much pressure, career-wise, to move to either the Bay Area, the West Coast in general, or a major urban hub. I honestly like living in a semi-rural part of the Midwest. I like seeing fields and forests while driving to work. If I want to get out to some wilderness, I can do so in 15-30 minutes. I travel in a car that, I feel, offers me freedom. To boot, I have a nice, reserved spot in the garage below my…

The cost of living is definitely infinitely higher than living in the midwest but you certainly can find fields and forests (and actual mountains!) in the SF area. For example, the minute you cross the Golden Gate bridge, you are in Marin County, a county with a rich agricultural history, amazing natural places like Muir Woods (the setting for the ape's home in the latest Planet of the Apes), and 85.5% of it's land protected from development forever. Here's a photo from the Headlands (http://www.robertcampbellphotography.com/Images/Marin/Marin-...), you can see SF just in the background, it's about 10 miles away from Downtown to the place in the photo. If you live in Marin, you can also choose to take the Ferry which drops you off in Downtown SF as well.

If you go South-West of SF, you will hit Pacifica and Half Moon Bay which are quaint coastal towns that will make you forget that you're only 20 miles away from San Francisco.

Go East, past the hills of Berkeley and you hit more rural spread out developments near Orinda, Diablo, etc.

I'm glad you found balance with the things that are important to you which is what really matters. Me personally, I'm drawn to the coast and the great expanse of the Pacific Ocean. The SF area has it's fair share of urban problems, but then you also have amazing restaurants, a close-to-world-class arts scene, some of the best schools and hospitals in the country, the most impactful technology companies in the world, and the fair share of folks who have come West looking to make their mark on the world in Gold Rush 2.0.

P.S. I've spent a fair share of time in Detroit/Michigan and the area and as much as I love being able to buy a city block there, I can't live in a place that calls soy sauce on rice "Fried Rice".

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#225

Post by jdmichal » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:13 AM UTC

thinkingkong wrote: post #208

morgante wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My cost of living is very cheap. My commute is 15 minutes. I live close to my family. Why should I want to leave? You shouldn't. If you have a good job in such a location and are happy with the opportunities available, enjoy! The problem is that markets naturally congregate in distinct locations so anyone who is looking to advance their career needs to make their way to a hub.

why do we keep clinging to this idea that creative work is somehow "market captureable". Theres almost 0 friction to work for a company in new york or san francisco but somehow being on-prem is this career enhancing move. Why. What does it get you? Some of the best engineers I know work remote and visit occasionally. Maybe theyre outliers, but we really need to kill this narrative where to be the best you need to liv…

Unfortunately, you don't really move up by being a good engineer. Or, at least, it's very difficult. Some people might pull it off, as specialist contractors or some sort of lucky remote working for remote pay situation. But typically, you have to start force-multiplying -- to borrow military jargon. And that's much harder to do remotely.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#226

Post by calbear81 » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

jrowley wrote: post #219

orthoganol wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me people trumps nature. I like living in a big international city with a lot of culture, getting to meet a lot of new people all the time. At least not being closed off to those possibilities. It doesn't have to be SF. It's not just that rent is expensive, it's that for the price you pay you most likely aren't even living in a nice neighborhood (most parts of Mission, parts of Soma, Market, parts of Haight, Divi…

The beauty with SF is that some of the most beautiful hills and scenery are just a short drive away.

I've been spreading the gospel brother! It's a sad thing that I too often meet folks who have been here for several years (unfortunately many engineers) who look puzzled when I mention Point Reyes or Big Sur. They don't venture too far out of the confines of the city and enjoyed the real reason we pay so much to live here!

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#227

Post by davidw » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

abalone wrote: post #96

This is a contentious issue and in case you are not from SF and wondering why Y Combinator is taking a stand on it, it has to do with the politics of the tech boom. The plain truth is that the housing crisis is a combination of too much sudden demand fueled by the tech boom and too little supply. The tech community likes to deflect criticism of their sudden influx of relatively high-income workers and say "don't blam…

I don't live in SF, but having spent most of the past 15 years in Europe, which is dense: it's almost completely a supply problem. SF is not really very dense at all for a place with such a high demand for housing.

Random place in SF: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7718267,-122.4388549,3a,75y,...

Near where I lived in Padova, which is way smaller than SF, and way, way less well off:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.3850829,11.8706466,3a,75y,18...

They look fairly similar, despite a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house in that area of the suburbs in Padova going for under 200K euro.

Here's what Milan looks like, which does have a decent economy, for Italy: https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4582853,9.2105922,3a,90y,219...

None of this 2/3 story crap, even if it's fairly far out from the city center. They've built up.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#228

Post by gorkemyurt » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

galdosdi wrote: post #205

s3r3nity wrote: post #38

This is one of the top factors preventing me from moving back to the Bay Area. It's good to know there's at least SOME serious attempt at a solution (even if folks around here are mostly pessimistic.) It still surprises me that an industry that's all about connecting the world through the internet and allowing anyone to work with anyone else on anything says "yeah but you need to work in this small area of the countr…

I think NYC is already there. It's so easy to find a tech job in NYC. Maybe it's even easier in SV, but I've never missed not being in SV. There's such a variety here. Plenty of startups, all the tech giants, and plenty of tech/IT jobs at "regular" companies, consulting opportunities, etc... And it's not _just_ tech -- plenty of other industries are headquartered in NYC. By contrast I can't think of any other industr…

Yea so the problem is you can't think of tech as one industry. Every company that's being created right now has to involve software one way or the other. That's why companies like Tesla (auto), Netlfix (entertainment), Solarcity (energy), Sofi (finance), airbnb (tourism), uber (logistics), tons of biomedical companies that I don't know the names of (medicine) all headquartered in the bay area.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#229

Post by brudgers » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

I suspect this might have an impact. The timeline though will be ten to twenty years, optimistically.

1. Eligible property will have to change hands and land in the right hands to make the projects happen. That's the nature of redevelopment, someone has to be willing to knock down a profitable building in hopes of building something more profitable.

2. The rate at which property will change hands will correlate to the legal certainty it can be redeveloped. Until new legislation successfully survives court challenges, the uncertainty will swirl around its "by right" provisions.

3. The trades base will affect the cost of construction and hence the viability of projects. Imagine there is some number /n/ of plumbers in the Bay area. At some threshold amount of construction, these plumbers are all in demand, and so the price of plumbing rises. This happens across several trades and formerly viable pro forma's pencil out poorly with the new cost structure.

4. People sitting on the land now are already in a wait and see mode. As land becomes more desirable to developers, prices go up. Rising prices attract speculators hoping to sell on. The rate at which developable land flows to competent developers remains moderate.

5. Five years from identification of a feasible redevelopment site for multifamily housing to full occupancy would be pretty quick even in a relatively development friendly culture. Research, options, due diligence, financing, entitlement, design, bidding, construction and leasing...any one [or several] can run out over a year.

Throw in the normal rate economic and financial cycling and the sorts of effects experience indicates these have on the construction and housing sectors, and even in the next ten years, there will likely be a period where half of all projects in the pipeline die.

There's no silver bullet.

Re: Housing in the Bay Area

#230

Post by kilroy123 » Thu, May 26, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

jevinskie wrote: post #160

There is so much pressure, career-wise, to move to either the Bay Area, the West Coast in general, or a major urban hub. I honestly like living in a semi-rural part of the Midwest. I like seeing fields and forests while driving to work. If I want to get out to some wilderness, I can do so in 15-30 minutes. I travel in a car that, I feel, offers me freedom. To boot, I have a nice, reserved spot in the garage below my…

Yes, but many young people like myself do not. Ok, I'm not so young now, I am 30. Still, I could not wait to leave my mid-size sunburn hell of hole of a city. In my mid twenties I did move to a west coast tech hub. Best decision I ever made.

If you like where you are, then you should definitely stay there.