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US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

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Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#21

Post by hereonbusiness »

cm2187 wrote: post #13

It reminds me this story, which was told to me as a true story, but I wouldn't bet too much on that. A soviet bomber gets lost and finds itself over western germany. It has to land on a military airport, which pilots jovially invite the soviet pilots for a drink. While they are drinking, intelligence officers take pictures of the plane, and are laughing at antiquated soviet technology, using bulbs while the US was we…

As far as I remember that story about "vacuum tube hindsight" is from a documentary on History Channel(?) about Soviet pilot Viktor Belenko [1] defecting by landing his Mig 25 in Japan, thereby letting the west get their hands on the most advanced soviet plane at the time [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25#Wester...

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#23

Post by TeMPOraL »

Old storage media (floppies, CDs) have a big advantage over new ones (SD cards, USB sticks, hard drives) - they don't have firmware. Most people didn't notice how over the last decade or so we've moved from having a computer read out data directly from a removable medium to having two computers talking together over a low-level, high-privilege protocol. While there are many benefits to this evolution, it also opens up many serious attack vectors.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#24

Post by na85 »

Malic wrote: post #3
gravypod wrote: post #2

I'd rather use outdated technology then use new technology that could introduce bugs.

There is something to be said about using proven technologies. But there is also something to be said about using still supported technologies. Really, are there producers of 8" floppy media anymore? Are we relying on "new-but-old" stock for occasional replacement needs for these systems? Sounds like that wrench that had to be FedEx'ed between silo bases for Minuteman maintenance: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-wr…

If the NSA can run its own semiconductor fab, then I'm sure the US Gov't can pony up a few million annually to manufacture floppy media for something as critical as its nuclear arsenal.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#25

Post by btgeekboy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #23

Old storage media (floppies, CDs) have a big advantage over new ones (SD cards, USB sticks, hard drives) - they don't have firmware . Most people didn't notice how over the last decade or so we've moved from having a computer read out data directly from a removable medium to having two computers talking together over a low-level, high-privilege protocol. While there are many benefits to this evolution, it also opens…

Along the same lines, you can visually inspect them. Now, perhaps there's a way to hide some sort of wafer-thin wireless reader and transmitter in a floppy disk that can somehow harvest enough electrical energy to be useful, but that's a long shot.

As for SD cards, ones that are more than just storage (e.g. with wireless technology embedded) already exist.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#26

Post by gdwatson »

gravypod wrote: post #2

I'd rather use outdated technology then use new technology that could introduce bugs.

What about the level of hardware failure with floppy disks?

CF cards seem pretty suitable. They're simple and well established; there's likely to be a supply of them for a long time, and it seems feasible to have a batch custom made if that's necessary 30 years down the line.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#27

Post by IIAOPSW »

ForHackernews wrote: post #8

Everyone needs to shut the hell up about nuclear obsolescence. If we can just keep the politicians from noticing the need to "modernize" these terrible weapons, then in a few short decades we will have achieved a de facto global disarmament. Everyone can continue manning their silos filled with stale dud warheads, fingers hovering over buttons that no longer work. We'll have all the stratigic stabilizing influences o…

No, people that agree with you about nuclear disarmament need to stfu if they want the de facto win you suggest.

Personally I don't think you can keep the stability benefits of MAD if secretly none of the buttons work. Eventually there will be a leak. You are literally suggesting security through obscurity.

But irrespective of my disposition this I still think this is the wrong way to get a "win". If you want disarmament then you should go through the political process and vote for people. Getting "wins" outside of the proper political process is just a bad precedent in general.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#28

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

cm2187 wrote: post #13

It reminds me this story, which was told to me as a true story, but I wouldn't bet too much on that. A soviet bomber gets lost and finds itself over western germany. It has to land on a military airport, which pilots jovially invite the soviet pilots for a drink. While they are drinking, intelligence officers take pictures of the plane, and are laughing at antiquated soviet technology, using bulbs while the US was we…

Most American military hardware has long since been shielded against EMPs I believe.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#29

Post by gene-h »

btgeekboy wrote: post #25
TeMPOraL wrote: post #23

Old storage media (floppies, CDs) have a big advantage over new ones (SD cards, USB sticks, hard drives) - they don't have firmware . Most people didn't notice how over the last decade or so we've moved from having a computer read out data directly from a removable medium to having two computers talking together over a low-level, high-privilege protocol. While there are many benefits to this evolution, it also opens…

Along the same lines, you can visually inspect them. Now, perhaps there's a way to hide some sort of wafer-thin wireless reader and transmitter in a floppy disk that can somehow harvest enough electrical energy to be useful, but that's a long shot. As for SD cards, ones that are more than just storage (e.g. with wireless technology embedded) already exist.

Even if you could hide a wireless reader and transmitter in a floppy disk, you would still be able to pick it up on X-ray. It would be very difficult to differentiate an SD card with a malicious payload even if one X-rayed it.

Re: US military uses 8-inch floppy disks to coordinate nuclear force operations

#30

Post by saalweachter »

dragonwriter wrote: post #17
saalweachter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Obama requesting the money is one of the best ways to ensure Congress does not appropriate it.

While true in general, with regard to military applications, Obama requesting money can be a way to get Congress to appropriate more .

Obama also unfortunately tends to act in good faith and with intent, so snark aside if he requested the funding for them he is probably OK with tactical nukes.
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