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Unnecessariat

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Re: Unnecessariat

#31

Post by AnimalMuppet »

maxerickson wrote: post #21
MrZongle2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to recall hearing about it being rammed through the Senate during a midnight vote. Barely a matter of having our elected representatives having a swing at it, let alone the American public at large.

99 out of 100 Senators voted on the issue. The abstained vote would not have changed the outcome. Is that rammed through?

It was not a midnight vote (or at least, not what the term implies), but yes, it was definitely rammed through. I've never seen such an absolutely-will-not-take-no-for-an-answer ramming job ever on anything.

Re: Unnecessariat

#32

Post by CodeMage »

DenisM wrote: post #23

I often say to my fellow engineers that software engineering is a profession of destroying jobs. There doesn't seem to be any follow up discussion though, everyone just nods and moves on to the next subject. What can we do? There is no stopping the train of automation.

Of course there's no followup discussion. The fact that software engineering is "destroying jobs" is the wrong problem to focus on, but any discussion that approaches the right problem -- capitalism -- is practically taboo in United States.

Re: Unnecessariat

#33

Post by yummyfajitas »

snerbles wrote: post #28
DenisM wrote: post #23

I often say to my fellow engineers that software engineering is a profession of destroying jobs. There doesn't seem to be any follow up discussion though, everyone just nods and moves on to the next subject. What can we do? There is no stopping the train of automation.

It seems that us as engineers either partake in pushing these souls into oblivion or join them. I see no way out unless we invent an economic use for those who will be useless.

I bring learning from a distant shore! Over in India we've found an economic use for all those who will be useless!

https://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2016/robots_didnt_take_ou...

Re: Unnecessariat

#34

Post by maxerickson »

vasaulys wrote: post #29

This reminds me of a This American Life episode where many members of a town collected disability because doctors there didn't consider them "smart enough to work". Seems to be the beginning of Universal Basic Income in all but name. On another note, it must be depressing to live there. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/490/t...

There's a writeup:

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

In the writeup, there is a county where one doctor considers whether a person he is talking too would be able to get a sit down job when he decides if he thinks they are disabled or not.

Re: Unnecessariat

#35

Post by JulianMorrison »

dbcooper wrote: post #2

It's probably also worth reading the recent Slate Star Codex blog post that cites this. http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/23/three-great-articles-on...

I found that really interesting too. My comment from there:

Throwing money at the problem of poverty, ironically, is actually being treated as a serious answer by international NGOs these days, where for ages people tried everything else on the assumption that the feckless poor would spend it on drink. Build infrastructure for them, food aid, subsidized goods, food stamps, workfare, every which way but "here have some cash". But when they actually tried the cash, it worked. That's one reason I'm optimistic about a basic income. Another, is that I feel that a whole lot of creativity has been stomped flat by, basically, living one paycheck from the street. With an inflation-pegged basic income that's enough to subsist on, and protected against creditors, effectively that fear would be gone. Bad news for employers wanting cheap poor people to do awful jobs. Good news, for all those individual people. I have a feeling they'd rebuild their local economy. I have a feeling, too, a lot of people stuck in the city by the necessity of the next paycheck, would move out and join them.

Re: Unnecessariat

#36

Post by cossatot »

DenisM wrote: post #23

I often say to my fellow engineers that software engineering is a profession of destroying jobs. There doesn't seem to be any follow up discussion though, everyone just nods and moves on to the next subject. What can we do? There is no stopping the train of automation.

Spend some time in some of these communities and figure out how to help? I don't think technology or software should be taken only to mean automation. A lot of fertile ground is opened up by easier communication, and many enterprises fail by inefficiency. Anything to help rural marketplaces or small businesses or healthcare could be very valuable.

Re: Unnecessariat

#37

Post by unimpressive »

CodeMage wrote: post #32
DenisM wrote: post #23

I often say to my fellow engineers that software engineering is a profession of destroying jobs. There doesn't seem to be any follow up discussion though, everyone just nods and moves on to the next subject. What can we do? There is no stopping the train of automation.

Of course there's no followup discussion. The fact that software engineering is "destroying jobs" is the wrong problem to focus on, but any discussion that approaches the right problem -- capitalism -- is practically taboo in United States.

But what's the alternative?

Removing the incentive gradient of capitalism doesn't create paradise, it just creates a new incentive gradient that can be even more perverse and horrifying than the last.

http://www.sigcis.org/?q=node/85

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/24/book-review-red-plenty/

Re: Unnecessariat

#38

Post by TelAviv_1 »

jraines wrote: post #24

I'm reminded of Jimmy Carter's "Malaise" speech: The symptoms of this crisis of the American spirit are all around us. For the first time in the history of our country a majority of our people believe that the next five years will be worse than the past five years. Two-thirds of our people do not even vote. The productivity of American workers is actually dropping, and the willingness of Americans to save for the fut…

But then, why does Jimmy Carter want terrorist regimes to blow up school busses in my country?

Re: Unnecessariat

#39

Post by dragonwriter »

smacktoward wrote: post #30
aston wrote: post #4

This is a pretty great personal account, and it helps me tremendously in my goal of understanding this group of people who feel left out and overlooked by their government. However, it's also a good demonstration of how people find ways to rationalize acting against their own self-interest. One example: The author observes that the unnecessariat is having lots of economic value extracted from them, e.g. from required…

So why didn't they all vote for Obamacare and for the public option, subsidized by higher taxes? Because there was nobody to vote for who offered that. McCain's proposal was to deny that the problem existed. Obama's proposal was Obamacare without an individual mandate. Clinton's proposal was Obamacare with an individual mandate. Those were the only entrees on the proverbial menu. No candidate ran on a public option,…

> Obama's proposal was Obamacare without an individual mandate. Clinton's proposal was Obamacare with an individual mandate. Those were the only entrees on the proverbial menu. No candidate ran on a public option

Actually, all of Obama, Clinton, and Edwards ran on a public option. They differed on other points (as you note, during the primary Obama opposed and Clinton supported an individual mandate, and there were various other differences between the three plans, but largely Clinton and Obama cribbed their plans from the same place Edwards did first, so they all looked pretty similar.)

Re: Unnecessariat

#40

Post by deepsun »

CodeMage wrote: post #32
DenisM wrote: post #23

I often say to my fellow engineers that software engineering is a profession of destroying jobs. There doesn't seem to be any follow up discussion though, everyone just nods and moves on to the next subject. What can we do? There is no stopping the train of automation.

Of course there's no followup discussion. The fact that software engineering is "destroying jobs" is the wrong problem to focus on, but any discussion that approaches the right problem -- capitalism -- is practically taboo in United States.

I believe the right problem is progress, not capitalism. I'm an emigrant from a non-capitalistic country, by the way.
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