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Employed with a side of startup

blog.asmartbear.com

21–30 of 34 posts

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#21
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic you've employed here works for stealing cars, too. If cars are really important to you.

Ok, maybe I should be more careful, what I wrote could definitely be misconstrued as that. Obviously I'm not saying to do anything illegal. But - telling your employer in advance that you're working on your own project? Really? What's the advantage in it? What you do in your off time is 100% yours [unless you signed something that says it's not], and letting your employer know about it will not bring you any addition…

The treacherous thing about these precautions is that they don't matter to most startups, because most startups don't succeed. It's only when what you're doing actually matters that it starts to make a difference whether, in year 1 of the company, there are phone records of you fielding tech support calls from your cube.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#22
post #11

I don't know how many hundreds of founders I have worked with over the years in Silicon Valley who began by moonlighting while working day jobs to get started. The process is normally pretty safe and, out of the hundreds of cases, I don't know of one that resulted in a lawsuit. On the other hand, since I also do litigation, I have witnessed a variety of these situations that have resulted in lawsuits and have occasio…

The really critical area tends to be the last point. I don't know how many times over the years that I have seen founders get tempted to want to: (i) steer current customers of their employer in the direction of their side venture; (ii) sign up key customer or supplier contacts of their employer as "advisors" for their side venture; (iii) talk to co-employees about joining their side venture; and (iv) the worst tempt…

Nonsolicit is a very common contract provision. As "fascist" as it sounds, my experience has been that it favors small shops.

They're apparently hard to enforce. That's totally irrelevant to you; just taking you to court is enough to kill your startup.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#23
post #13

I disagree with most of his advice. I really doubt you'll be able to quit your job and get anywhere with your business if you follow it. I don't really want to get into details for obvious reasons, but when I worked on my business on a side last year, let's just say I wasn't following the advice in this article, and I glad I didn't. If I did, I would still be working for "the man" and hating my life. Everything in li…

Ignoring the ethical complexities here, which are inherently subjective, and the legal issues, which I have no authority so speak on, let me just say this: writing code for your side project on your work computer is really fucking stupid.

It's not a gray area; there is precedent and you will lose.

Once in my life (first job out of school) I was in a job where I'd been relegated to menial grunt work that wouldn't teach me anything or advance my career, so I've been in the career sand trap. What I did: I taught myself Python and a few APIs I needed for the side project (which was actually a research project, not a startup) during slow periods. I did a bit of research into AI algorithms (on Wikipedia) as well. But I never wrote code for the project at work.

If you must steal ("liberate") time, be very careful not to write any code that you'll need when at work. I'd say 3 rules apply.

1. Generally, a company can own what you do, not what you learn. If you're going to steal time, use it to do research and exploratory code (that is thrown away) but keep your product code 100% on your own resources. I'm not saying this strategy is right, nor that it's a fool-proof legal defense, but it beats the alternative (of writing side code at work) which is generally considered both wrong and illegal. As far as I know, there's no legal distinction between reading AI articles on work time and the million other kinds of goofing off that 90% of corporate denizens spend most of their days on.

2. Companies want you to work 9-5 because those are your best hours. If you're serious about a side project, then the first thing to do is to figure out if you're a morning or a night person (which is mostly genetic). If morning, start waking up at 4 and use 4-8 for the project. If night, your side project should be done in the evenings. You can only give the side 33% of your work time, but you can give it 80% of your energy by aligning your most energetic hours with your side project time. If you're not serious enough about a side project to make these adjustments, you're not cut out for it.

3. If you get a creative "spark" at work and must get an idea down, have a legal pad and pen that you own (i.e. not with the company's name on it). Write down your design and implement it later. Poets may lose it if they don't get it down at once, but you're a programmer, not a poet. So get your ideas and maybe some pseudocode on paper, but no code goes into any machine until you're home and it's your machine.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#24
post #13

I disagree with most of his advice. I really doubt you'll be able to quit your job and get anywhere with your business if you follow it. I don't really want to get into details for obvious reasons, but when I worked on my business on a side last year, let's just say I wasn't following the advice in this article, and I glad I didn't. If I did, I would still be working for "the man" and hating my life. Everything in li…

I am going to agree with that. If you want to do a startup right you have to devote all of your time to it. But working on the side may be ok in the beginning just to see a proof of concept, or determine if a business idea is viable.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#25
post #21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, maybe I should be more careful, what I wrote could definitely be misconstrued as that. Obviously I'm not saying to do anything illegal. But - telling your employer in advance that you're working on your own project? Really? What's the advantage in it? What you do in your off time is 100% yours [unless you signed something that says it's not], and letting your employer know about it will not bring you any addition…

The treacherous thing about these precautions is that they don't matter to most startups, because most startups don't succeed. It's only when what you're doing actually matters that it starts to make a difference whether, in year 1 of the company, there are phone records of you fielding tech support calls from your cube.

The "assume Big Brother is watching" advice seems to be good in all cases. If the startup doesn't succeed, then you need the day job and don't want to be found out and lose it. (Your company is not likely to think "startup" when they see "strange activity", but rather "interviewing elsewhere"; that, however, will get you just as fired in a lot of places.)

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#27
post #3

Great bit from the article: "If they decide to sue, they get to look through your email records (it's called "discovery"). Then they have 100 emails you sent during work hours. You lose." Weird. I submitted this article but my submission has now disappeared and it's now on front page under bhousel? Probably just a coincidence?

They get to look through your personal emails?

They can review any e-mail communication that was addressed to or from your corporate account. This is also true if they are sued by a third party.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#28
post #3

Great bit from the article: "If they decide to sue, they get to look through your email records (it's called "discovery"). Then they have 100 emails you sent during work hours. You lose." Weird. I submitted this article but my submission has now disappeared and it's now on front page under bhousel? Probably just a coincidence?

They get to look through your personal emails?

Sure,

Under the law of the United States, civil discovery is wide-ranging and can involve any material which is relevant to the case...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really critical area tends to be the last point. I don't know how many times over the years that I have seen founders get tempted to want to: (i) steer current customers of their employer in the direction of their side venture; (ii) sign up key customer or supplier contacts of their employer as "advisors" for their side venture; (iii) talk to co-employees about joining their side venture; and (iv) the worst tempt…

Nonsolicit is a very common contract provision. As "fascist" as it sounds, my experience has been that it favors small shops. They're apparently hard to enforce. That's totally irrelevant to you; just taking you to court is enough to kill your startup.

+1 on "taking you to court is enough to kill." And you personally -- even if you win you don't get your lawyer fees back (contrary to popular opinion).

Nonsolicit is actually one of the clauses I think isn't unfair. It's one thing to leave a company, quite another to cause an exodus.

Re: Employed with a side of startup

#30

3. You can't afford to hire three developers to add features and bugs. I got a kick out of that one - Everybody know that only big businesses can afford to hire developers to add bugs.

Awesome, I'm glad you got that joke! I don't think anyone else mentioned it. :-)

I've seen studies too on things like "Developer Productivity" or other such crud where they didn't even measure stuff like "new functionality added" but ONLY "how many bugs were injected."

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