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TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

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Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#71

Post by dsfyu404ed »

zeveb wrote: post #58
marcus_holmes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can work this out. Everyone in the USA has the right to bear arms, and a lot of them do. Result: huge murder rate. Everyone in the rest of the world does not have the right to carry guns around the place. Result: much smaller murder rate. I think we can infer that if everyone could take guns on planes then we'd have more people shooting guns on planes and hence more death on planes. Going from that to stop…

> Everyone in the USA has the right to bear arms, and a lot of them do. Result: huge murder rate. The rate of murders committed by folks legally carrying guns is low; the rate of murders committed by Americans using weapons other than firearms is high. It's almost as though Americans in general are more violent than people in many other parts of the world.

murders committed per legally owned firearm vs murders committed by illegally owned firearm, and probably the same for legal/illegal owners is another stat you should take into account...

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#72

Post by dragonwriter »

knowtheory wrote: post #51
mindcrime wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think we should replace/get rid of the TSA, but the neo-conservative method of government excision where you cut off the cash flow and wait for everyone to get pissed off ("starve the beast") is incredibly unpopular. I'm not sure that's even in play here. Neo-conservatives talk about "small government" but it's mostly lip service, especially when it comes to anything related to the military/industrial/espionage/…

It's really not lip service. The budget sequestration deal in 2011 resulted in 10% across the board cuts in 2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_sequestra... Likewise, if you look at how Congressional Republicans responded to the Obama Administration's request for funding for Zika research you'll see the same thing. The answer was both "no" and "why don't you divert research funds from Ebola to Zi…

Those weren't neocons driving those cuts (neocons position in the Republican Party -- and thus national politics -- peaked under Bush and rapidly receded after he left office.)

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#73

Post by rdtsc »

ianhawes wrote: post #34

One of the most irritating aspects of the TSA inefficiencies is that they know the demand at each airport in advance. Because all airlines submit passenger information to the TSA as its booked (often months or weeks in advance), the TSA can shift resources. While I'm all for blaming the TSA, the head of the TSA's union was on NPR this morning and pointed out that Congress diverted funds collected from the "9/11 Tax"…

> Congress diverted funds collected from the "9/11 Tax" (per-ticket fixed fee used to fund TSA) to other parts of the government budget. The union is requesting emergency funding for 8,000 additional TSOs, which would only bring it back to 2011 staffing levels.

There is a good chance they are deliberately trying to cause long delays so media will get outraged, and then they can say "it is because of not enough funding, we need more money, call your Congressperson".

Remember the "sequestration" a year or two back, how they started closing parks, while still spending billions on defense and other things that public would have little involvement in. This could be something similar.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#74

Post by mr_spothawk »

ts330 wrote: post #36
anonymousDan wrote: post #17

The airport security in most of the American airports I've seen in the last few years is just a complete shambles in terms of efficiency. It takes forever in comparison to most of the busy European airports I've been through. And I doubt the security is any better. For example, London Gatwick has a really fast system where they have a set of packing bays before you get to the scanners/pat downs. This massively reduce…

the key here is that more than one person is filling their tray at a time. so if one person is taking their time, other people can jump past them. obviously it helps to have motivated and efficient operators, but in my experience, it's almost always some dithering idiot that holds things up. as as we all know, serial processing of a queue is not efficient when you end up waiting on IO :)

I fly frequently through a limited set of airports.

I rarely see the millimeter scanner at less than max throughput.

That said I regularly do what I can to slow things down, and sometimes take the pat down in favor of hassling the staff.

Attrition is damned right. The TSA scam is awful, and I hope we can get rid of it soon.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#75

Post by Thriptic »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #5

Let's close down the TSA instead. Use intelligent profiling and random searches instead of universal scanning. Let anyone go to the gates, not just ticket holders. Allow liquids, yogurt containers, etc. Allow knives. Allow people to "congregate" near the front lavatory. Try it for one year and I can almost guarantee, flights will be every bit as secure. Security theatre is not security.

Hell, just roll things back to how they were before 9/11. I think it makes sense to have metal detectors, but we don't need to be taking clothes off or going through x-ray machines

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#76

Post by blisterpeanuts »

ivraatiems wrote: post #61
ck2 wrote: post #33

Can't believe I am saying this but whatever Israel does in their airports, do it here and problem solved. In fact whatever company does it in Israel should be hired to do it here, if it is a government thing, borrow their people to train ours, we give them enough for that loan.

The way Israel achieves their efficacy is blatant racial profiling. I've been to Israel several times, and because I am a white Jewish American, I have no problems. If I had brown skin, or was Muslim, or wasn't from the US, there's a good chance I'd just not be let in. Now, it works extremely well. Can't deny that. And it's legal under Israeli law. But it would be blatantly illegal here.

Israeli profiling is far more sophisticated than "blatant racial profiling" as the above commenter baselessly claims.

For one thing, many Jews in Israel are of Middle Eastern origin and appear identical to Muslim Arabs. The Israelis use several layers of profiling: a preliminary sweep as you are checking in, which assigns you a particular "risk level" based on your country of origin, profession, behavior, and other details (probably if you're wearing Muslim attire, that's taken into account as well).

You then have to undergo several more levels of scrutiny from very well educated, highly intelligent and intensely trained specialists. They can and will frisk, pat down, and strip search if needed. They can open all of your luggage and check every inch of it if they're suspicious. Or they can wave you through if they're satisfied of your innocence.

Here's one journalist's impression of the Israeli system:

http://www.businessinsider.com/israels-ben-gurion-airport-se...

For the Americans to adopt the Israeli system would mean recruiting some very sharp cookies, training them very well and compensating them commensurately. The U.S. government's track record of such achievements is not that great, unfortunately. Certain groups like the Navy SEALs, certainly, but to hire, say, 100,000 such people to operate the 5,000+ airports in the U.S. is dauntingly beyond reasonable contemplation.

EDIT: also worth mentioning that Israel is 20% Muslim. They wouldn't just "not let in" Muslims; on the contrary, they have to accommodate many different ethnicities and religions every day. It's an extremely diverse country.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#77

Post by dublinben »

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #38

I've been to the DMV yesterday. You wait in line for 40 minutes in the sun just to get a number and then wait some more. Once you get a number, you're counted in the official wait time statistics published on their website, so the extra 40 minutes are shaved off for free. Who ever though it was going to be different when the TSA was created?

In many states you can book an appointment ahead of time on their website. No waiting necessary.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#79

Post by blisterpeanuts »

ivraatiems wrote: post #62
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #5

Let's close down the TSA instead. Use intelligent profiling and random searches instead of universal scanning. Let anyone go to the gates, not just ticket holders. Allow liquids, yogurt containers, etc. Allow knives. Allow people to "congregate" near the front lavatory. Try it for one year and I can almost guarantee, flights will be every bit as secure. Security theatre is not security.

I agree with you 100% on security theater, but you have to be careful with "intelligent profiling." Remember that if it involves singling somebody out by race, gender, religion, etc., it's almost certainly unconstitutional in the US.

by intelligent profiling, I mean more the way the Israelis do it: psychological profiling, looking for telltale signs of nervousness/guilt etc., ranking people by profession/origin/appearance, and randomly singling people out for more extensive scrutiny (but not so random as to nab the 80-year-old grandmother in a wheelchair).

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#80

Post by CWuestefeld »

mr_spothawk wrote: post #74
ts330 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the key here is that more than one person is filling their tray at a time. so if one person is taking their time, other people can jump past them. obviously it helps to have motivated and efficient operators, but in my experience, it's almost always some dithering idiot that holds things up. as as we all know, serial processing of a queue is not efficient when you end up waiting on IO :)

I fly frequently through a limited set of airports. I rarely see the millimeter scanner at less than max throughput. That said I regularly do what I can to slow things down, and sometimes take the pat down in favor of hassling the staff. Attrition is damned right. The TSA scam is awful, and I hope we can get rid of it soon.

My personal experience is just the opposite. I always see the nudie scanners languishing for 30 seconds or more between people. The delay seems to be the baggage x-ray.

If that's true, then some other things fit neatly into place. The airline escalation of baggage check fees has driven people to carrying more stuff. That, in turn, means that more stuff needs to go through the x-ray conveyor, which slows down that process.

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