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TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

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Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#41

Post by Angostura »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #6
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #5

Let's close down the TSA instead. Use intelligent profiling and random searches instead of universal scanning. Let anyone go to the gates, not just ticket holders. Allow liquids, yogurt containers, etc. Allow knives. Allow people to "congregate" near the front lavatory. Try it for one year and I can almost guarantee, flights will be every bit as secure. Security theatre is not security.

has the TSA stopped a single credible plot since it started doing all this theatre?

How would we know? How would we know how many actions haven't happened due to the perps being dissuaded by the security measures?

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#42

Post by [deleted] »

DanBC wrote: post #27
marcus_holmes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

has the TSA stopped a single credible plot since it started doing all this theatre?

They stop about 10 handguns a week. They don't say, and it's hard to know, how many guns they don't stop. I think none of those gun owners had plans to use the gun at an airport or on a flight. There's small amounts of evidence that "terrorists" moved to different approaches - the Inkjet cargo bombs, for example.

[deleted]

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#43

Post by DanielBMarkham »

maxerickson wrote: post #29
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the obvious takeaway from all those knives and guns? For decades folks have been bringing all that stuff on airplanes and there never was a 9-11. Never was an inflight shooting as far as I know. By reporting this stuff they're actually making the case of how totally useless they are -- and how pointless and misguided the "find the weapon" school of security theater is.

It seems it is merely incredibly rare. This guy shot the pilots: http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/burke-david.htm This guy stabbed one pilot to death before he was subdued: http://murderpedia.org/male.N/n/nishizawa-yuji.htm The stabbing occurred after he reported the security flaw he used to get the knife on board the plane. Previously checked baggage could be picked up after passing through security for another fligh…

There was also a guy that planted a bomb in order to kill his wife.

I'm guessing the number of weapons on U.S. planes that get by security run into the thousands every year. And before all the checks, probably the tens or hundreds of thousands per year.

Looks extremely rare. I mean really, really extremely rare. Handful of examples and roughly 9 million U.S. airline flights last year[1]

It'd be interesting to run some comparative statistics. I bet the odds show that you're safer with a plane full of gun owners, having their guns in holsters and loaded, than you are spending the same amount of time in each of those gun owners' homes.

[1] http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/acts

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#44

Post by brians »

ck2 wrote: post #33

Can't believe I am saying this but whatever Israel does in their airports, do it here and problem solved. In fact whatever company does it in Israel should be hired to do it here, if it is a government thing, borrow their people to train ours, we give them enough for that loan.

They have one international airport; you can use different moves when you don't have to scale.

They have broad social consciousness of active attack. Most Americans do not experience terrorism as a realistic threat.

Others differences in the acceptability and prediction strength of profiling based on apparent race and sex also matter. In short, we've tried and their model doesn't port over cleanly.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#45

Post by ttraub »

mindcrime wrote: post #37
ianhawes wrote: post #34

One of the most irritating aspects of the TSA inefficiencies is that they know the demand at each airport in advance. Because all airlines submit passenger information to the TSA as its booked (often months or weeks in advance), the TSA can shift resources. While I'm all for blaming the TSA, the head of the TSA's union was on NPR this morning and pointed out that Congress diverted funds collected from the "9/11 Tax"…

I do think we should replace/get rid of the TSA, but the neo-conservative method of government excision where you cut off the cash flow and wait for everyone to get pissed off ("starve the beast") is incredibly unpopular. I'm not sure that's even in play here. Neo-conservatives talk about "small government" but it's mostly lip service, especially when it comes to anything related to the military/industrial/espionage/…

Here's what the Tea party website has to say:

http://teaparty.org/tsa-misconduct-highest-levels-160893/

There are many other articles on conservative channels ripping the TSA as a big government boondoggle.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#46

Post by ceejayoz »

rocky1138 wrote: post #40

The danger of the TSA is that the employees truly believe they are doing good and important work. The brainwashing is so strong that it almost reaches a religious level.

I flew through Charlotte a few weeks ago and got stuck at TSA (the sniffer threw up a bright red "EXPLOSIVES DETECTED!" banner, upon which the other passengers at the checkpoint started giving me dirty looks and edging away... Thanks for that, TSA. You'd think it'd say something like "ERROR 5930" instead...).

There were hundreds of people at the checkpoint, TSA was moving very slowly. Someone else's laptop got flagged, they asked why, and the TSA staffer said "the molecular weight of the laptop was off". She (rightly) said that didn't make sense, complained that they'd made her miss her flight, and said "I work for the government, we're on the same side, but WTF?".

Response to her was "don't you want to be safe?" followed by a good five minutes of the entire TSA staff mocking her after she'd gone. They mocked her for saying she worked for the government, saying "if she worked for the government she'd know that already" (ignoring for a moment that their explanation was massively incorrect, why would a non-TSA staffer know anything about the spectrophotometer workings?) etc.

Meanwhile, when they get tested, they miss 95% of test weapons/bombs. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-u...

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#48

Post by ceejayoz »

DanBC wrote: post #27
marcus_holmes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

has the TSA stopped a single credible plot since it started doing all this theatre?

They stop about 10 handguns a week. They don't say, and it's hard to know, how many guns they don't stop. I think none of those gun owners had plans to use the gun at an airport or on a flight. There's small amounts of evidence that "terrorists" moved to different approaches - the Inkjet cargo bombs, for example.

> They don't say, and it's hard to know, how many guns they don't stop.

95%. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-u...

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#49

Post by tptacek »

ianhawes wrote: post #34

One of the most irritating aspects of the TSA inefficiencies is that they know the demand at each airport in advance. Because all airlines submit passenger information to the TSA as its booked (often months or weeks in advance), the TSA can shift resources. While I'm all for blaming the TSA, the head of the TSA's union was on NPR this morning and pointed out that Congress diverted funds collected from the "9/11 Tax"…

Just a nit: The management technique you're talking about is called "attrition". I think it's ideologically neutral. Either way: "starve the beast" isn't a neocon position; Grover Norquist isn't a neoconservative.

Neoconservatism is primarily about activist foreign policy, something that sets them apart from traditional conservatism, where isolationism is a more prominent strain of thought.

Re: TSA's Head of Security 'Removed' from Office

#50

Post by ceejayoz »

deelowe wrote: post #12
jimcsharp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is the movies I've watched, but isn't firing a gun structurally dangerous to the airplane?

Considering one plane flew and successfully landed with half the top missing, I think movies might exaggerate the risk a bit. Shocking, I know...

The plane you're referencing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

And no, folks, "half the top missing" isn't hyperbole.

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