I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but the ASP.NET MVC/IDE is a better ecosystem than Rails now. No more missing bundle x, install devkit x,....just install visual studio 15 and get to work.
Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
111–120 of 213 posts
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a Ruby developer who gets paid to work with PHP daily, the reason 82.2% of all websites report a PHP backend is because 82.2% of all websites can only afford a PHP backend. PHP developer salaries lag well behind market average for pretty much the same skillset. The tooling around PHP on the web is a wreck because you get what you pay for. Java isn't that much different -- I see tons of Java jobs I don't want in NY…
Don't forget the huge number of those 82.2% (is that made up on the spot) websites are likely built on wordpress as well.
~80% is what I've been hearing for a while from various reliable sources so I'd wager it's not far from there.
The real reason PHP is everywhere is because PHP is everywhere. It used to be that the only major host that didn't offer it was Google App Engine but that was resolved ~3 years ago. Since it's everywhere - and the vast majority of people don't care about the technology under the hood - they just choose the first thing that works.
Odds are that's a one-click install of WordPress. They do that. They add their content. Then they move on to their actual business.
Other than software developers, people don't care about the code under their website as long as it a) keeps working and b) no, that's it. Even security is an afterthought for most of these people.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Rails didn't beat PHP and Java for webdev because hipsters think it's cool. I despise Ruby, PHP, and Java, but there is no objective argument that Ruby has "beaten" PHP or Java. It hasn't even beaten Python. It's tiny compared to the largest back-end languages. Edit: evidence below: - Ruby is used by 0 of the top 15 most-visited sites[1] (Twitter doesn't use it anymore). Java is used by 7 of them. PHP is used by 3.…
As a Ruby developer who gets paid to work with PHP daily, the reason 82.2% of all websites report a PHP backend is because 82.2% of all websites can only afford a PHP backend. PHP developer salaries lag well behind market average for pretty much the same skillset. The tooling around PHP on the web is a wreck because you get what you pay for. Java isn't that much different -- I see tons of Java jobs I don't want in NY…
Scala is where it's at for higher paying jobs, I agree PHP and Java are generally low paid because of baggage.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#114Ruby was the number 1 reason why about 6 years ago, fresh out of uni with a Java/C background, I chose to learn Python and Django. Ruby seemed rather useless outside of Rails and I really, really liked what I saw in the Zen of Python. Ie. less magic, explicit > implicit. Etc.
I agree. The Python ecosystem has a healthier amount of diversity, both in terms of Django vs other frameworks and web development vs other use cases.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#115I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but the ASP.NET MVC/IDE is a better ecosystem than Rails now. No more missing bundle x, install devkit x,....just install visual studio 15 and get to work.
As long as you agree with the choices Microsoft makes. If you have a different opinion? Too bad.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
FTFY: "I don't understand why those who spend most of their time __using tools__ focus so much on the tools they use to do it." It should be more self-evident now. When there are many tools which meet the minimum requirements for doing a job, then the focus becomes not on which tool can do the job, but which tool you feel does the job the best (or you enjoy using). Carpenters argue about the best saws/drills, artists…
"Carpenters argue about the best saws/drills, artists argue about the best brushes/paints, musicians argue about the best instrument maker." Is that actually true? I can't think of a single example of such an argument. I have heard recommendations, and heard various trendy tools being promoted (at least for music), but never an argument. I think it has to do with transferability of skill. In music, carpentry, and pai…
I've never had a problem moving to another language, I'll never understand why people pigeonhole themselves into categories like "rails dev" or "java dev".
The fundamentals are transferable, I don't even mention specific technologies or stacks these days if I don't have to.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#117I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but the ASP.NET MVC/IDE is a better ecosystem than Rails now. No more missing bundle x, install devkit x,....just install visual studio 15 and get to work.
As long as you agree with the choices Microsoft makes. If you have a different opinion? Too bad.
Same with RoR, no?
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Carpenters argue about the best saws/drills, artists argue about the best brushes/paints, musicians argue about the best instrument maker." Is that actually true? I can't think of a single example of such an argument. I have heard recommendations, and heard various trendy tools being promoted (at least for music), but never an argument. I think it has to do with transferability of skill. In music, carpentry, and pai…
I've never had a problem moving to another language, I'll never understand why people pigeonhole themselves into categories like "rails dev" or "java dev". The fundamentals are transferable, I don't even mention specific technologies or stacks these days if I don't have to.
Well, two things. Lots of people are good on the mechanics of a particular stack and weak on the fundamentals, making the description accurate.
And lots of people hire based on the assumption that expertise in a particular stack is the most important thing (perhaps in part as a result of the preceding point).
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Rails didn't beat PHP and Java for webdev because hipsters think it's cool. I despise Ruby, PHP, and Java, but there is no objective argument that Ruby has "beaten" PHP or Java. It hasn't even beaten Python. It's tiny compared to the largest back-end languages. Edit: evidence below: - Ruby is used by 0 of the top 15 most-visited sites[1] (Twitter doesn't use it anymore). Java is used by 7 of them. PHP is used by 3.…
As a Ruby developer who gets paid to work with PHP daily, the reason 82.2% of all websites report a PHP backend is because 82.2% of all websites can only afford a PHP backend. PHP developer salaries lag well behind market average for pretty much the same skillset. The tooling around PHP on the web is a wreck because you get what you pay for. Java isn't that much different -- I see tons of Java jobs I don't want in NY…
I pitch that as a benefit. You get my expensive skills and when I've built it you get a cheap replacement of me for maintenence.
Re: Rails has won: The Elephant in the Room
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> AR is the only one I've used that's both expressive enough to cover all the cases I'm interested in Have you never worked on a system big enough to need a service layer?
I've been using service objects / operations in my apps pretty consistently for half a decade, but that's a red herring. That statement is about using AR to query and manipulate data, which is orthogonal to a service layer. Service objects aren't going to fix the lack of optimistic/pessimistic locking in DataMapper.
I don't know what you mean by "service objects", but my point is that ActiveRecord requires you to have a line to the database in order to actually populate a database. This is really shit for a SOA; you should not require a connection to the user database to be able to make heads or tails of an object from your authn/authz service. It is so completely unacceptable that I consider it completely disqualifying (to say nothing of AR's other problems; if I had to use an ORM, which I don't because DALs are fairly trivial in Ruby, I would use Sequel).
This is why I use Virtus and ROM.