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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

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Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#161
post #127
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a much bigger thing (Golden Shield) that involves submitting photocopies of IDs to get a mobile phone SIM > I can assure you this is not current Chinese policy. It is the law: to get a SIM card, must submit ID card scan or passport scan.

In India too, you need ID card to get sim card. And your sim card is activated after verification. In west you don't need to? How does Security agencies collect data? India is quite free albeit there's a recent surge of fascism.

India is practically free, but technically not. We're hilariously stumbling into becoming a security state.

Its funny, even though it is so tragic.

I remember that you didn't need Govt ID to get a phone line, to enter an airport, or to get on a plane (you just needed the ticket hard copy).

I definitely remember a time when you didn't need Govt ID when you checked into a hotel! Now you do, and hotels have to keep copies of them.

There's been so many, many assaults on privacy in India, and no one to oppose it because Indian's inherently are fond of the idea of a parent state.

If its hard to believe a random person on the internet - consider that the Government of India recently argued that there is no right to Privacy in the constitution.

And Aadhar. Man, if you want to see a better example of "Not my Problem" and doublspeak, then look no further than our Biometric program.

Its like watching Kafka author history.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#162
post #46
post #8

The Chinese own China and can decide for themselves what is best for their country. But as an American living in China, I fear that some of what I see here can and will happen in America one day.

The Chinese do not control China. The Chinese Communist Party controls China.

Of course, you can say this about every government. Americans do not control America. The American government controls America.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The far more aggravating thing is that we tolerate China, choose to do business with Chinese companies and buy Chinese products. A trade embargo (aka cold war) would be a lot worse for everyone involved.. Leads to arms race and threats of war, even less freedom and more injustice for the people (eg North Korea). > we are trading our values, for which people freaking died to win, for short term convenience .. Yeah,…

"Don't get carried away with "dying for .. something", most often this is not true - most died because delusional leaders sent them into battle ... only after the fact their death got dressed into "honorable cause".." There is a broad spectrum of (personal) causes that leads one to follow an order which inherently brings with it the risk of dying. Many deaths were of people that did not had any real choice other than…

We are taught to idolise the military because it makes questioning the motives of government and the purpose of war difficult.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#164
post #11

So what about Tor and obfsproxy? Does it actually (still) work? If so, why don't more people use it?; if not, why not? I can't easily find up-to-date information about this through Google - which I find odd, since China is such an important use case for Tor that I would expect them to maintain some sort of status page. Maybe the information is more readily available in Chinese...

From what I understand OpenVPN tunneled through stunnel works, but I haven't tried it myself. Setting yourself up with your own private bridge might be another way to go.

Lots of VPNs work. For a while (maybe still), with proper internet speed even the Opera Developer Browser built in "VPN" worked, and worked faster than most normal VPNs.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#165
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try to as them about tank man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

I, as well as my parents, my grandparents, and many other Chinese, know about the incident, but we do not necessarily agree with the Western media's opinions on it. After all, our parents were the ones that witnessed it, and they should have a better understanding of what really happened. You can read this article by Western media to get a different perspective: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinas-leader-talks-to-60-m…

[deleted]

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#166
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try to as them about tank man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

I, as well as my parents, my grandparents, and many other Chinese, know about the incident, but we do not necessarily agree with the Western media's opinions on it. After all, our parents were the ones that witnessed it, and they should have a better understanding of what really happened. You can read this article by Western media to get a different perspective: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinas-leader-talks-to-60-m…

I'm pretty sure that all but a very few of them watched it on TV just like everyone else did. Well, not exactly like everyone else did - a lot later, a lot shorter, and edited and presented by the tank.

edit: I'm overestimating Chinese media freedom here. Furtive word of mouth and descriptions from people who have travelled outside of China are probably a more accurate way that Chinese people have learned about this facet of their own history - am I right?

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we have the same definition for freedom. Here's one freedom that we do have: I have the freedom to denounce China's attitude towards censorship and you're free to counteract with other arguments, leading us to dialog, on a public forum. And on people dying, that's just another way of saying that great sacrifice has been made for us to enjoy the lifestyle and freedoms that we do have, so we can't trade t…

> I have the freedom to denounce China's attitude towards censorship Just like the Chinese have the freedom to denounce US imperalism. Now, try something more serious, like calling for actual Western war criminals, and those of Western allies, to be brought to court. You won't go to jail; because nobody (who matters) will listen to you. And what would happen if you managed to actually start something that had a real…

They (Chinese people) don't have the freedom to denounce US imperialism though, because that implies a choice - if they were equally able to rejoice and accept western values as they were to reject them (like you can in the USA incidentally), then your statement would be right.

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as well as my parents, my grandparents, and many other Chinese, know about the incident, but we do not necessarily agree with the Western media's opinions on it. After all, our parents were the ones that witnessed it, and they should have a better understanding of what really happened. You can read this article by Western media to get a different perspective: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chinas-leader-talks-to-60-m…

I'm pretty sure that all but a very few of them watched it on TV just like everyone else did. Well, not exactly like everyone else did - a lot later, a lot shorter, and edited and presented by the tank. edit: I'm overestimating Chinese media freedom here. Furtive word of mouth and descriptions from people who have travelled outside of China are probably a more accurate way that Chinese people have learned about this…

You are right. It's good to get opinions from people who are living abroad. But I would be cautious over the recounts of the "Chinese dissidents" who are expelled or fled from China.

They are more likely to be motivated to give a biased recount against the government as a way of expressing their resentment with the government. They also often have supports from people/organizations who are eager to find ways to paint Chinese government black (for whatever reason they might have). (Think the situation of Snowden)

Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works

#170
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the freedom to denounce China's attitude towards censorship Just like the Chinese have the freedom to denounce US imperalism. Now, try something more serious, like calling for actual Western war criminals, and those of Western allies, to be brought to court. You won't go to jail; because nobody (who matters) will listen to you. And what would happen if you managed to actually start something that had a real…

Oh, I think Mr. Snowden would disagree on the "nobody has done it before." And he wasn't the first.

no matter how i admire mr snowden, I didn't catch any news mentioning someone from US agencies/government being bought before judge because of his revelations. Did I miss something?
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