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Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

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101–110 of 195 posts

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha I'm on a train and autocorrect is a bit of a bitch :-p (That actually scares the crap out of me, missing something like that on something I give the students)

My wonderful English teacher gave extra credit on correcting her own worksheets.

That is a genius idea. I might float it past one of my head English teachers!

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#102
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

I don't know when you taught here, so hard to say but a couple of things have changed in the last 10 years or so. First, they have introduced a "foreign language" class for elementary school children. I know some people who have taught it and they have a lot of praise for the program. It focusses on simply interacting with foreigners and includes many different languages. Personally, I've noticed a big difference in…

I'm going to look into this, thank you. I am always interested in learning better ways to teach the students :)

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#103
post #2

Anyone have any thoughts as to why they would take the bottom up approach (ie, start with elementary and go up) rather than top down?

Probably a pragmatic choice. High school kids schedules are absolutely packed with focused study for exams and then more after school homework and cram schools. If you told parents and students they were going to have less study time to get ready for university exams they'd probably be a lot of pushback.

Elementary school students have much more flexible time, and university seems like it's a long way away. Taking a chance on computing in school won't seem nearly as scary to parents.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#104
post #98
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I guarantee you the smarter students will be correcting their teachers and making a mockery of them Like what happens already with exceptional students for any subject. The fact that a number of teachers are barely ahead of their own material is nothing particularly new.

Actually in Japan, I could easily see students being mocked for correcting the teacher. A little story from a Japanese friend who was fluent in English: He, of course, had to take elementary English in school. The teacher was teaching family members and asked "What do you call your grandfather's father?" He replied "I think it's great-grandfather" The teacher laughed at him, causing the whole class to laugh at him. "…

I have seen this in person. I was even told once by a teacher than anything the ALT's say must be true (even when it was defiantly not).

It actually came about as i was a bit nervous about teaching a subject i hadn't done in a long time, and didn't want to mess something up.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know when you taught here, so hard to say but a couple of things have changed in the last 10 years or so. First, they have introduced a "foreign language" class for elementary school children. I know some people who have taught it and they have a lot of praise for the program. It focusses on simply interacting with foreigners and includes many different languages. Personally, I've noticed a big difference in…

I'm going to look into this, thank you. I am always interested in learning better ways to teach the students :)

I have some notes somewhere around here as I was half way through writing a text book before I went back into programming. Give me a shout at my username @ gmail.com.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to look into this, thank you. I am always interested in learning better ways to teach the students :)

I have some notes somewhere around here as I was half way through writing a text book before I went back into programming. Give me a shout at my username @ gmail.com.

hey thanks will do!

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#107
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

I would advise against making a prediction based on your argument. It is much easier to practice programming on one's own than it is to practice English.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#108
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would put it on the same level as literacy and basic arithmetic. It exposes you to entirely know ways to solve problems, a basic understanding of computer science on a societal level would be amazing.

There's no way it is on the same level as literacy and basic arithmetic, at least not for decades if not longer. Literacy rates in the modern world are close to 100%, near the same can add and subtract. Programmatic thinking requires much more effort and skill, at least right now, and that's why we are getting hella paid. It's almost like saying accounting or medicine is the same level as literacy. Or on the low end…

Good software engineering is ridiculously difficult to the extent that nobody gets it right, everything sucks everywhere, and there's no way to win. It requires a lot of domain expertise and background knowledge that goes far beyond just programming. That's why developers are, as you put it, hella paid.

That said, programmatic thinking itself is much simpler. Learning how to think algorithmically and think about things like recursion, iteration, functional abstraction, etc., are definitely things everyone can learn to do. And this sort of thinking is valuable in areas other than software engineering. The weakest thing you can claim is that knowing programming lets people write programs, which is somewhat popular hobby activity among people can do it regardless of their profession, and something that there's some value in given the success of IFTT, Tasker, and similar systems that either approach or are actually programming.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#109
post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You can apply this logic to almost all subjects in school aside from the very basic ones (math, reading/writing) and even then you can argue school need not be teaching at a high level. > I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow. We shove kids into biology, chemistry, physics, literature, art, etc. The ones that like it will make it their career…

Or it could go the way of math, hated but all but the very most talented at it and generally considered boring. This has very real effects on the discipline, including a more exaggerated gender problem that CS has already inherited, and a number of extremely intelligent people are conditioned to never really give it a chance.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#110
post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

In the UK it's called 'computational thinking', which much better covers what such a curriculum is about. Parts of it can be done without a computer at all; a 'bubble sort dance' for example (getting students to sort themselves from small to tall with an algorithm).
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