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China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
41–50 of 311 posts
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#42The Great Firewall actually makes a lot of sense. Everyone thinks of themselves as being rational and unbiased - But in fact, we are all irrational, biased and at times hypocritical. Those people who think that they are rational and objective are usually the least rational and most hypocritical of all because they lack self-awareness. As westerners, as much as we like to pretend that we know the whole truth, in reali…
I find the many "the West is a problematic too" responses here a bit troubling.
Not that I don't find the West problematic but the many problems of the West don't actually make China's problems any better and I'm not sure there are many who seem to think they do.
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#43China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China. This may be in the form of hindering sales for comapanies they may have interesting opportunities for investment, from sports shoes to embedded microchips, to financial products. It is also part of a much greater Golden Shield network. But a lot has changed over the past 5 years. A contrast of goals/objectives: the Golden Shield form…
> China's firewall is largely constructed to create technology transfer towards China.
That's been a huge effect of the GFW, but is there material indicating it was the original purpose? My understanding was that much of the explosion in Chinese censorship tech happened as a way to prevent social media from gaining control over the news cycle. (i.e., when a train wreck occurs, the Party prefers stick-to-the-facts news coverage over whose-to-blame social media mobs)
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#44The Great Firewall actually makes a lot of sense. Everyone thinks of themselves as being rational and unbiased - But in fact, we are all irrational, biased and at times hypocritical. Those people who think that they are rational and objective are usually the least rational and most hypocritical of all because they lack self-awareness. As westerners, as much as we like to pretend that we know the whole truth, in reali…
Who is "China" who picks "their" version? The Chinese Communist Party, or the Chinese people? How would China become dependent on the West if Chinese people had access to non-CommunityParty ideas?
Chinese people would be consuming western media through Facebook, Twitter etc... Through this media, they would be shown advertisements for US companies selling US products.
Soon enough, Chinese people would no longer be content with Chinese-made goods and services from small Chinese suppliers (e.g. through decentralized marketplaces like Alibaba) - Instead they would start buying US goods through centralized marketplaces like Amazon and Apple store - Basically the money would leave China and they would all be worse off on average.
By keeping western media out, they keep Chinese money in. Don't ignore the fact that media is paid for almost entirely by advertising and that advertising is paid for entirely by companies who need to sell products.
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure; but you're not making a moral argument here right? That is, they can decide, but it's still objectively wrong.
I am a guest in this country. Irrespective of what I believe is right or unalienable it is not my place to insert myself into their politics.
Ever? I'm hesitant to invoke Godwin here, but do you agree that at least in boundary cases, it's morally permissible to directly force a change in the internal politics of another country?
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#46The Chinese own China and can decide for themselves what is best for their country. But as an American living in China, I fear that some of what I see here can and will happen in America one day.
The Chinese do not control China. The Chinese Communist Party controls China.
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#47> China has achieved this. It can communicate with the outside world, meanwhile Western opinion cannot easily penetrate as ideological tools Media is powerful. And even in the US, most of us self-censor our news (liberal vs conservative media) to the point where we're largely reading only views we agree on (HN is no different in that regard). I always find it amusing that we can all read the same news with different…
> we're largely reading only views we agree on [...], all read the same news with different conclusions and come out thinking that we're right all the time.
If not the premise, this is at the very least a nasty side effect of Twitter: users choose who to follow, and the overwhelming majority follow people they mostly find themselves in agreement with.
IOW Twitter is a self-satisfying echo chamber.
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#48The Great Firewall actually makes a lot of sense. Everyone thinks of themselves as being rational and unbiased - But in fact, we are all irrational, biased and at times hypocritical. Those people who think that they are rational and objective are usually the least rational and most hypocritical of all because they lack self-awareness. As westerners, as much as we like to pretend that we know the whole truth, in reali…
I find the many "the West is a problematic too" responses here a bit troubling. Not that I don't find the West problematic but the many problems of the West don't actually make China's problems any better and I'm not sure there are many who seem to think they do.
China definitely has its problems but my point is that there are problems everywhere and we shouldn't single-out any specific country because we think that their problems are worse than ours (maybe they have the opposite opinion).
The reality is that no one has the moral high ground; we are all competing for resources and relevance and every country is willing to resort to dirty tricks to get ahead.
China has the Great Firewall, the US has the NSA...
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#49There would not be a hundred billion dollar ad industry if propaganda didn't work. We wouldn't run multi-million dollar presidential campaigns if propaganda didn't work. The whole field of social psychology and public relations would be a useless exercise if propaganda didn't work. This is the fundamental problem with democracy: people are easily influenced. The antecedents of the current Chinese communist party, the…
even the wiki entry on Edward Bernays is very interesting :D
Re: China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works
#50Maybe it doesn't work. I've always wondered why, among so many long-ruling authoritarian regimes, China is almost the only one with such strict censorship. Yes there was the Arab Spring but look at Saudi Arabia, Russia, Belarus, Vietnam..., they don't ban Facebook yet the incumbents' rule do not face exceptionally greater challenge than China. Maybe all censorship does is to give the Communist Party is false sense of security. Maybe it's something else that's working and censorship is simply free-riding.