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Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

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Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#81
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an English teacher I'm seeing a lot of change in the new generation of teachers. I teach high school student part time (so I can work on my side project), and the teachers over the age of 40ish have pretty terrible English(these are English teachers), but all of the newer ones have pretty good levels. I have even been notified a few teachers are going to the US for a few weeks to get immersed in English as a sort…

> whose work sheets Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Haha I'm on a train and autocorrect is a bit of a bitch :-p

(That actually scares the crap out of me, missing something like that on something I give the students)

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#82
post #72
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

> yet, English fluency sucks That is totally not my experience. I have travelled widely in Asia and Japan easily had the best English fluency across a range of people I conversed with (well apart from Singapore but that doesn't count). Compared to Korea/Taiwan, Japan was a breeze, even in HK I had trouble with shopkeeps outside of areas heavily frequented by westerners. I travelled to some pretty far flung areas of J…

You are correct that almost everybody is familiar with English, but that's not speaking it, let alone being fluent. To a degree, English already is part of the Japanese culture and language. But it's a different English. Some of it is compatible, but native speakers are the one's graciously degrading (to use a web programming term) to meet their level, and not them meeting you at a level you're accustomed to speaking.

Of course general familiarity is not a bad thing but is to be expected when they're taking classes everyday. The goal is for fluency, competency, and the capacity to be competitive at a global level. They're far from it, and that is why the system has yet to succeed.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#83
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

I don't know when you taught here, so hard to say but a couple of things have changed in the last 10 years or so. First, they have introduced a "foreign language" class for elementary school children. I know some people who have taught it and they have a lot of praise for the program. It focusses on simply interacting with foreigners and includes many different languages. Personally, I've noticed a big difference in my rural town in Japan. Small children now often walk up to me and try to use their English. They always seem thrilled when their phrases work ("Hello. My name is Tarou. What is your name?", "I am fine. How are you?", etc)

Also the instruction of both junior high school and high school English has changed. It is now (officially, anyway) taught using only English in the classroom. I left the year before it entered high school, so I never officially participated, but I got some of the students who went through the junior high program. Even in my very low level school, the fluency improved dramatically.

Finally, they began demoting teachers with poor language skill a few years ago. It's actually a bit unfortunate because some good teachers got demoted whereas poor teachers with good language skill got promoted. I suppose you can't have everything.

Anyway, they are improving over time. The one thing I should point out is that teaching language fluency is actually very difficult. Things like grammar translation is still considered the best technique in many universities. Even though Pimsleur demonstrated the effectiveness of spaced repetition in the 60's, virtually nobody builds lessons that way. If you look at the ideas of Stephen Krashen and techniques like TPRS, even though they are very effective for fluency, only the lunatic fringe utilize them.

I actually gave a demonstration of TPRS (and related skills like circling) to the Shizuoka board of education once. They seemed very excited and even said, "This is the way English should be taught", so I have some hope that they are looking in the right direction. But again, nobody gets this right. Even the most effective techniques are still quite barbaric IMHO. It's one of the reasons I'm sad to be out of language education. Lot's of important discoveries to be made ;-)

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#84
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

It's not just Japan. When I started here in .NL with an ICT study, it was the first year the school offered it, and History teachers were 'teaching' hardware and software design and more, just by reading from the book. I spent more time teaching people that year than a few of those teachers did...

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#85
Ironically I was just lamenting the fact that my daughter won't get access to a computer in her Japanese elementary school until 5th grade.

And she goes to public magnet school.

While it's great that they are pushing forward to say that programming is important, I have little confidence that they'll be able to make it a reality.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#86
post #68

In Japan, English is already mandatory, yet, English fluency sucks. Japan recognizes the problem, but doesn't know what to do about it. Basically, English education has yet to succeed. [1][2] This is the thing about Japan. They can make these moves that are incredibly progressive and ambitious -- visionary even, yet, they really have no idea how to go about doing it. As it stands, they don't have enough teachers that…

>I guarantee you the smarter students will be correcting their teachers and making a mockery of them

Like what happens already with exceptional students for any subject. The fact that a number of teachers are barely ahead of their own material is nothing particularly new.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#87
post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You can apply this logic to almost all subjects in school aside from the very basic ones (math, reading/writing) and even then you can argue school need not be teaching at a high level. > I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow. We shove kids into biology, chemistry, physics, literature, art, etc. The ones that like it will make it their career…

nuh, up to a certain point you won't learn much that's not at least interesting, save for french. And even that could help me with latin now, had I learned it better. Sure there's details only needed in a career, but that's late and kept to a minimum for obvious reasons, was for me.

The investment is the pupils choice and the rdturn on investment is debateable. You argue diminishing returns, I say scientific responsibility can be a burdon indeed, so what I really dislike is that it's forced.

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#88
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose work sheets Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Haha I'm on a train and autocorrect is a bit of a bitch :-p (That actually scares the crap out of me, missing something like that on something I give the students)

Programmers make mistakes all the time, so I suppose it's fair that English teachers can screw up English :)

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#89
post #8

This may not be a good idea. Code is one of those things that by itself sucks until you have a reason or purpose to use it. I started learning coding around age ~9 in 1996 or so. But what got me hooked was websites, because I could use the code to build fan sites or accomplish real, purposeful tasks. I feel like just shoving code at kids isn't going to do much unless they are also incentivized to use it somehow.

You just described Mathematics. For the longest time, it was just something I did because people told me to. They judged me on how well I could complete a problem so I did the problems... I hope to god we don't go down the same path for Programming.

Was this 'high school' math or math?

Re: Japan adding mandatory programming education to all elementary schools

#90
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose work sheets Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Haha I'm on a train and autocorrect is a bit of a bitch :-p (That actually scares the crap out of me, missing something like that on something I give the students)

My wonderful English teacher gave extra credit on correcting her own worksheets.
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